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Post by powerof0ne on Jun 2, 2011 19:13:39 GMT -5
Reminds me of a Muay Thai instructor that everyone just calls "kru" and they call him that all the time. They look at me crazy when I call him by his name. I then explain it's just a title and he's not my kru. Osu!
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Post by yoshukai on Jun 2, 2011 22:02:09 GMT -5
For years, the majority of people in Yoshukai here in the U.S. thought that Kaicho was our founders first name. They were mortified when I explained that Kaicho meant president and that Katsuoh was Yamamoto Kaicho's first name.
Osu!
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Post by powerof0ne on Oct 20, 2012 15:51:12 GMT -5
Just today, I was networking and texting a sensei I know a few states away, about some information, he is always polite, and addresses me as sensei, even when I tell him not to..I sort of gave up on telling him not to. I've always been somebody that does my best to give somebody the same respect they give me, so I also address him as sensei. I do this for only a select few people, usually people, that I know and trust their lineage, meaning, I have no question that they're the real deal. However, just because I don't know that somebody is, doesn't mean, they're not, neither, but in this day and age, most of the time, it's very easy to verify someone's lineage....getting off topic, sorry.
Actions speak louder than words, those that know, can tell when somebody knows, or doesn't know what they're doing, and that goes, for everything: being a butcher, electrician, carpenter, martial art instructor, etc.
i.e. Most of the time, when I talk to Cameron Quinn via fb or elsewhere, I address him as Quinn Shihan, even though I don't necessarily agree with him about everything, I still respect his lineage, which, IMHO, can't be disputed.
The only time I don't, is probably when I talk to Senshido and Gary, because they have communicated with me somewhat normally over the years..and I think it's sort of creepy to address somebody as their martial art title outside of martial arts when you're not even talking about martial arts LOL! If I was in either one's dojo, I would address them by their title as sensei/shihan/coach/grand pooba, whatever.
I do believe that kids should address their instructors as sensei, shihan, sifu, senpai, hanshi, etc. even if they see them outside the dojo. My reason is because children have a hard time being able to separate when they should do the "dojo walk" or act leisurely...trust me, once you tell a child they can treat their sensei like any other adult outside the dojo, once they go back to the dojo, they will probably misbehave. I know, I remember how I was like when I was a child, getting 10-20 minutes of focus out of me in martial arts in an hour was challenging enough!
I bring this up, to give my perspective on martial art titles, and usage outside the dojo. I think some Western martial art instructors, sometimes get carried away, expecting everyone to address them by their title, even if they don't train under them. To me, most people that try to insist I address them by their title, that aren't in my org., or my instructor, are usually schmucks. Osu!
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GJEC
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LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Oct 21, 2012 6:40:00 GMT -5
Enshin defines shihan as 'a teacher of high rank who trains other teachers' (Sabaki method - Joko Ninomiya and Ed Zorensky)
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tmd
Member
Think Fast Hit hard
Posts: 242
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Post by tmd on Nov 12, 2012 14:13:12 GMT -5
I think it's the same for most Gary isn't it? I know that's how I see it and why there is a move away from Shihan for those actually running orgs to Kancho or Hanshi or Soke
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Post by powerof0ne on Nov 12, 2012 14:25:27 GMT -5
I've always been told that shihan means, teacher of teachers, but I know over the years, it's been somehow used to mean "master" by many in English speaking countries. I can't say if it's the same in other non-English speaking countries, or not. Osu!
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shugyo
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Proof Is On The Floor!!
Posts: 76
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Post by shugyo on Jun 24, 2013 0:11:03 GMT -5
Titles have to remain within the context! We only use our titles whenever we're involved in official Hombu business matters. For example, meetings, testing cycles, promotions/awards, Hombu business corresponding matters and the like. However, our Soke was Soke at all times, and our Dai-Soke was Dai-Soke at all times. Now, only those of us who were in the inside circle were allowed to call our Dai-Soke by his first name behind closed doors at the Hombu and/or at his home. Still, Soke was ALWAYS Soke. Respect begets respect!! I'm the current Kaicho, and believe it or not, I'd rather be called by my first name, Bob, while I'm on the floor teaching. Why? To me, it's an informal setting, even though I firmly believe as our Soke and Dai-Soke believed; the floor is sacred ground. The formal settings are saved for the aforementioned Hombu business matters. Any other time for me, is similar to...one can't see the forest because of the trees; JUST TRAIN for the love of training!! Formality has its place! I'm Hanshi, but not on the floor when I'm teaching; that's for formal settings! Bob...just Bob, Sensei Bob is ok, but it's not a written-in-stone rule. Some think that's wrong of me, but, guess what? It's my dojo, therefore, it's my rules, and, whenever I'm at the Hombu, it's still my rules because I'm Kaicho of the Shindokan Hombu and I set the tone when I'm on the floor. And Master, well, that's not me!! I only know one Master and he sits at the right hand of the Father!!
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shugyo
Member
Proof Is On The Floor!!
Posts: 76
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Post by shugyo on Dec 28, 2013 21:35:05 GMT -5
It's always interesting to see the differing governing bodies usage of titles. In Shindokan, we use many honorific titles, but we don't use Shihan. We use the Shogo titles, and we use, of course, Sensei. In that, while a governing body might control many things, our Hombu doesn't control what a Shindokan dojo can or can't use. However, when they're at the Hombu, they must use only approved of titles and the like. To my knowledge, and I visit each and every Shindokan dojo in the Spring, I've never heard Shihan ever used, or at least, not in my presence.
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blacktiger
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Post by blacktiger on Dec 31, 2013 10:55:19 GMT -5
Sensei, Shihan, Dai Shihan, Kru, Arjan, Professor, Soke, outside Japan etc these titles are totally miss used. I'm happy with Sensei, and my belt says brother.
For me it doesn't matter as the grades/Titles means nothing without the individual having skills still.
OSU
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Post by jellyfish292001 on Jan 7, 2014 12:43:19 GMT -5
I find it funny when people use the title outside the dojo, I train with a local Shihan and who everyone still calls Shihan even in the pub! I get very funny looks when I call him by his first name. My students children or adults just call me Cheryll outside the club, a few of them aunty Cheryll and 2 of them mum. The funniest thing for me is when my son forgets and calls me senpai mum!!
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blacktiger
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Post by blacktiger on Jan 17, 2014 4:51:42 GMT -5
The one thing that always goes through my mind when I see the words Kancho is this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KanchoBUT the terms I find can be listed like so Shotokan-KickBoxing-TKD answered 2 years ago (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120111060842AAwwgkO) Sensei Means person born before another or former born. Senpai means senior student. Shihan-dai Title used to designate someone that is considered to be a low ranked master. It is the lowest title for a master and is not always used. This title is usually not awarded before 4th dan. Shihan means chief instructor. The title is usually awarded at the 5th dan level. Many styles award it at 4th dan. It is not considered proper to award the title below 4th dan. Renshi means masters title roughly akin to saying “Polished Expert”. In most arts the title is reserved for 6th dan or higher. However it has been awarded at lower and higher ranks. Kyoshi means masters title roughly akin to saying “Master of Masters”. Kyoshi is usually reserved for those at 7th dan or above. Hanshi means masters title usually reserved for 8th dan. In some organizations it may be given to the headmaster of the Ryu/style. In some cases it is awarded as an honorary title for those ahving a minimum age of about 60.
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Post by alan on Jan 17, 2014 9:51:54 GMT -5
I wouldn`t go out in public with anybody who insisted of using their rank outside of a dojo, the only person i have spoken to outside of a dojo and used their title was Steve Arneil at a sayonara party.
At the same place i spoke to Bernard Creton using his first name and he is a 9th dan.
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GJEC
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LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
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Post by GJEC on Jan 17, 2014 11:14:18 GMT -5
Some people can't switch off can they? Same with officers at work, some still wanted to be called 'Sir' in the pub. Yeah right! Gary
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Post by hokuto12 on Jan 18, 2014 8:14:07 GMT -5
In Judo the only one that they call Shihan is Kano. My Aikido instructor in Japan was an8th dan with the title of Shihan but he went by sensei to most people only people from other countries that didn't know him as well called him Shihan. But he told me to refer to him as sensei.
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Post by hokuto12 on Jan 18, 2014 8:22:16 GMT -5
Sensei has been around for a long. In the reading of the kanji it means person born before the other. School students use it to call their teacher. Also doctors are referred to as sensei and lawyers as well. Not to mention that sports coaches are also called sensei. Another kancho with different kanji is a medical procedure to help people become regular again.
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