|
Post by powerof0ne on Mar 8, 2011 10:58:04 GMT -5
I'm not going to go into the history of Muay Thai because a simple google search or even a wikipedia search will give you a basic run down on it. What I want to address is there is Muay Thai and there is kickboxing schools that have fighters fight in Muay Thai. Not one is necessarily better then the other, neither. However, there is a Muay Thai style just as there is a Kyokushin karate style. Ever since the early 90s I have seen so many "kickboxing" schools that advertise Muay Thai that have no business doing it. You don't see shotokan schools advertise "Kyokushin" so I don't get why they do this. I spent years in Muay Thai and still love it but there are some things in Muay Thai I personally am not a fan of so I'm not some elitist person that thinks MT is better..I know kickboxing gyms that do better then the MT gyms near them on fight cards. Anyway I just wanted to set this "disclaimer" up because it's a pet peeve of mine. Notice, I didn't name any gyms or camps . Osu!
|
|
|
Post by medguy on Mar 9, 2011 2:19:27 GMT -5
In your years doing MT were you doing basics up and down the floor? I suspect there was a certain amount of basic techniques taught. The reason I say this is because people have tried out my karate class and they seem to be at a loss when I am teaching basics. I think it's because whoever is teaching them MT is basically pulling stuff off of Youtube and these guys think "just jump rope, hit pads, hit bag, little bit of sparring with no direction, go home, magically know what you are doing." i tell them I am quite sure beginners in MT (like age 8 or 10 or whatever since their career is over at about 22) have been doing basics ad nauseum before bag and pads.
|
|
wullie
Member
I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, there's no way you can prove anything!
Posts: 725
|
Post by wullie on Mar 9, 2011 6:58:22 GMT -5
I teach kickboxing, its more K1 style than anything else, wouldn't advertise it as MT.
|
|
curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
|
Post by curlbroscience on Mar 9, 2011 10:09:39 GMT -5
In America there is a current event that is very interesting. West coast MT fighters have called out East Coast MT fighters basically calling them Amateur Kickboxers. The reason for this is because on the east coast, state regulations do not allow elbows in Muay Thai fights. A big difference between K1 style matches and Muay Thai are the Elbows and Clinch. After a few words back and forth it looks like the score will be settled a la East vs West. RIP Tupac and Biggie! www.mymuaythai.com/archives/east-vs-west-continued/
|
|
|
Post by powerof0ne on Mar 9, 2011 10:16:06 GMT -5
Yes, most definitely started out with basics. Started out just with the basic stance and how to move in it with foot work.
I've seen different approaches to how everything is done in various gyms but it's usually somewhat systematic.
However, I have seen what you're talking about, too where it seems like they're only taught a few different things or taught as they jump into bag work, pad work, and just jump rope, and some sparring. I arch my eyebrow a lot at this method because it's going to develop some bad habits.
I can't really comment on why but I will say there are some people teaching MT that have no business teaching it. Fortunately the general public is becoming better educated so I see this happening less and less, compared to 15 years ago. Osu!
|
|
curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
|
Post by curlbroscience on Mar 9, 2011 10:27:41 GMT -5
(The reason I say this is because people have tried out my karate class and they seem to be at a loss when I am teaching basics. I think it's because whoever is teaching them MT is basically pulling stuff off of Youtube and these guys think "just jump rope, hit pads, hit bag, little bit of sparring with no direction, go home, magically know what you are doing.") I think there is a fine line between a structured MT class versus a free range bag, pad sparring session. In my observation MT and Kyokushin class have similar focus: repetition, repetition, repetition, and sparring. I am on the fence about instructors teaching structured combinations. Our gym is structured on a 2 hour session of rounds on bags and jumping in with the Kru or an Amateur fighter for rounds of pad work. During the time with our Kru is when most correction for kicks, punches, elbows etc come. Here is an example of another school in our area that teach "Line Drills" Sad face
|
|
|
Post by powerof0ne on Mar 9, 2011 11:48:36 GMT -5
One thing I'd like to point out that in some MT and Kickboxing gyms sparring isn't done that much, and almost rarely. However, in some other gyms it seems to be done a third to a half of your gym time! Personally, I like a happy medium.
Something I was told years ago is "pad work is like desert" which I didn't exactly agree with because doing 5 rounds of Thai pads really tests your conditioning but over the years I have came to agree with that saying. When you have somebody that's a good pad holder, it is like desert! Don't take it for granted working your combinations on somebody that really knows how to hold pads, make you counter, defend, etc. This can be applied to all stand up striking martial arts in my opinion.
Working combinations, counters, defense, etc. on pads will help you improve a loooooooot! If you don't do much pad work I'd look into adding it to your training. It does take time to learn how to hold pads properly if you're going to be doing combinations. Believe it or not you can get hurt holding Thai pads wrong but there is more then one way to hold them, too. I know, just added to the confusion, sorry.
The biggest example of holding Thai pads wrong that comes to mind is when somebody isn't ready to brace themselves for the kick and is holding it too lightly and ends up hitting themselves in the face. You can get KO'd out this way, and believe me, it has happened! Osu!
|
|
|
Post by kyofighter on Mar 9, 2011 16:48:44 GMT -5
I teach mostly K1 kickboxing also but I do advertise Kickboxing / Muay Thai Classes. The reason is the in North America if you say only kickboxing people think that is just cardio taebo workout and not full-contact real kickboxing training. I only use it to attract people and then they can see on the website what we do or they can try a class . When people ask me if I teach Muay Thai , I say that I teach Kickboxing with full-contact karate and muaythai elements.
|
|
tmd
Member
Think Fast Hit hard
Posts: 242
|
Post by tmd on Mar 9, 2011 17:36:06 GMT -5
It's one thing to advertise with a twist as Kyofighter is sugesting and a completely different thing to say outright what you teach is MT or Knockdown or whatever unless it is.
I like balance and cannot believe that hard sparing too much ot to little is anything other than detramental as you either get to banged up to move forward or not enough exposure to the knocks to know how to handle full contact fighting, balance, balance, balance.
|
|
|
Post by powerof0ne on Mar 9, 2011 17:45:55 GMT -5
I'll go by Kyofighter's experience since I'm not in his area. In the area I'm in there was one gym in particular that no longer exists that would advertise they taught Muay Thai. This gym in no way taught anything close to MT and never even had their fighters fight in MT fights or modified Thaiboxing rule (MTR) fights. We have some very respectable gyms that claim Eurasian kickboxing and have every right to do so because they legitimately have had fighters fight and train around Europe, Japan, and more. Personally if I ever start training any fighters again I'm just going to call what I teach "kickboxing" but they'll learn a fair amount of Muay Thai but some other stuff added in as well. Over the years my ideas of footwork go against most of what I have learned in Thai style Muay Thai and it also helps I am no longer part of a Muay Thai association and can do such things . I'm by no means an expert on Muay Thai, I started MT around the mid 90s and probably because I came from a karate background I didn't even fathom to teach MT until I actually had a certificate that said "instructor" on it. With that being said, I know there are some gyms and camps that do no "certification" and that's fine, too. I know Wullie has been doing kickboxing for a long time so I'm looking forward to his experience, especially since he comes from an area that still follows the A, B, and C class fighters. That system unfortunately isn't followed too well in the USA which I think is a big problem why a lot of the USA kickboxers and MT fighters don't do so fare well when they go "pro" in other countries. Osu!
|
|
wullie
Member
I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, there's no way you can prove anything!
Posts: 725
|
Post by wullie on Mar 10, 2011 8:38:58 GMT -5
got to say i'm a bit surprised the A,B,C system isn't that well followed in the USA, to me it makes loads of sense to gain the ring experience with limited technique and as the fighters gain experience step it up to the next level with more 'dangerous' techniques allowed. it's like doing an apprenticeship, and IMHO can only make for more rounded fighters in the long term. saying that (back in the day ) i only competed under high kick rules (or American rules as it was known here) as that was really all there was available in the UK back then.
|
|
curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
|
Post by curlbroscience on Mar 10, 2011 10:19:47 GMT -5
"That system unfortunately isn't followed too well in the USA which I think is a big problem why a lot of the USA kickboxers and MT fighters don't do so fare well when they go "pro" in other countries. Osu!"
USA is definitely not known for it's high class MT, but it is growing. MT is much higher in quality in Europe and obviously Thailand.
We do have some west coast fighters that are making names for themselves internationally. Joe Schilling and Kevin Ross come to mind.
Osu!
|
|
|
Post by powerof0ne on Mar 10, 2011 15:44:16 GMT -5
True story, my first fight was a "pro" fight. I didn't earn crap but my fight was in Canada and all expenses were paid for (travel, hotel, food, etc.). Due to my coach's connections my picture was even on the poster and it was a huge card (Josh Barnett Strikeforce and former UFC champ.'s mug was also on the poster he was doing a Muay Thai fight). This was a MTR match meaning clinching and knees to the head were allowed but no elbows. My second fight was a "intl. rules" or "leg kick" match with shin pads!! and no knees. That was my only time ever fighting in the ring with shin pads. The promoter for my second match saw me at the first fight so it wasn't like my coach and myself were trying to pull something over on the promoter.
This is how backwards kickoboxing/muay thai was and still is in a large part in the USA.
The reason why I'm even familiar with the A, B, and C class system is because I later trained in a system where the founder is from Holland and combined kickboxing/muay thai and kyokushin together. When I trained in that system my coach would not let people do pro fights until they got enough amature fights under them...even lost a few students because they were too lured by a grand or two pay day to do a pro fight before he thought they were ready. "Coincidentally" those students that took the pro fights against his wishes lost their fights horribly.
The bottom line is this, if you fight too early as a pro before you're ready and lose horribly a promoter isn't going to be inclined to offer you another pro match unless they just need somebody at the last second because their first choice had a training injury, etc.
I don't recommend anybody ever do what I did. At the time I did my first fight I was new to the whole kickboxing/muay thai world and just wanted to fight and fought wherever my coach wanted me to. Osu!
|
|
curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
|
Post by curlbroscience on Mar 17, 2011 14:54:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by powerof0ne on Mar 17, 2011 15:17:07 GMT -5
Watched another video from this gym and I'll just say I was taught not to say anything when I have only bad things to say. Osu!
|
|