Talking about TKD with a coworker

[powerof0ne]

A coworker and I got into a "heated discussion," more so on his half...

His wife, and her sister who's no deceased did TKD for years, and his wife & him were both stationed in South Korea.

Apparently they believe the drink the "kool aid" story that TKD is thousands of years old, clueless that TKD as a name didn't exist until the 50s (Karate, not many years beforehand, different topic).

He had no clue who the Hawarang warriors were, why it's flawed that TKD, Hapkido, TSD, and Hawarang Do all claim to come from the Hawarang warriors and how different Tae Kwon Do is from Taekkyon(which TKD often times claims to come from).

I proceeded to explain to him that TKD literally started out doing karate kata, and even in Tang Soo Do that some of the kata still have the Okinawan name (i.e. Chinto and Pasai). I also told him how many of the first TKD instructors had black belt rankings in shotokan primarily, and a few in shito ryu.

What was funny is he kept saying I had nothing to back up what I said, to which I smiled and in about 20 seconds pulled up a website that had a bibliography to back up why the "romantic story" of TKD being thousands of years is wrong...his excuse was all of their names being American or from here LOL, which wasn't true.

I kept saying to him, where's his proof to TKD saying these romantic stories? All they are is stories that each major TKD org says, to no proof backing it up.

He kept bringing up Taekkyon, but TKD only has the fact that it kicks in common with Taekkyon...Taekkyon done today probably isn't even how it was originally done....

He finally dropped it once he realized I knew more about TKD than he did, even though I never studied the damn art

I did like how he wouldn't admit to my point being right, that the romantic story of the history of it is just what they're saying with no proof to back up any of it just like many martial arts do.....

TKD is Koreanized karate, that through decades has evolved into its own style, but, its roots are in karate, no mistake about it.
Osu!

[hokuto12]

Hes not alone, I have a mate that does TKD and it is the same thing. Not willing to except the Shotokan conection.
Hapkido is another funny story which I don't believe happened the way they claim.

[fatjoe]

When I was younger, ok 35 years ago.....there was a school on the boulevard that taught "Kempo Taekwondo Karate". Being an 11 year old kid influenced by Bruce Lee, I went and joined the school for a little while (we were very poor, but since tuition was cheap, a good friends parent paid my way if I would go with him.)

Before every class started we would sit cross legged and listen to stories of why and how the martial arts came to be. He explained that very often, excellent systems where lost because large armies would come and kill a clan.......likewise many systems were mixed due to the incorporation of techniques grabbed from conquered villages and clans as well.

We were told that the predecessor to TKD was developed to fight from trees and hilly terrain, hence we were always told to be aware of our surroundings and maintain light foot work.......We were also told that the system we were training in was an amalgamation of Chinese, Japanese, Okinawan and korean disciplines.

We were told we must always move forward and back and circular but never dig in........this completely contradicted my earlier karate lessons that emphasized gripping the ground with your feet and maintaining strong static stances.

My point..........I have watched the differences between the little i learned when I was a kid back in that school and what i learned and my children learned in modern day tkd. I can say, there is very little similarity other then the non stop kick drills!! Gone were the joints locks and maneuvers that would rip a limb off while you were running in a different direction. All the throws, rolls and jumping punches.....gone! (so much fun as a kid.) We learned to kick effectively from hanging ropes, cover and punch while rising from the ground do flying kicks, tuck and roll into an opponent and do leg sweeps from the ground..........not there in any system I see these days!!!!

The Korean fellow who ran that school left a few years after I stopped going and it became another school...(Shorin Ryu for a little while....then that closed).

I would be naive to say that he was not embellishing the information he shared with us........but I am abundantly sure he had some of his facts on point back in the 1970s.......as he had been training since the 1940s.....

TKD as a name may have come later, but the early systems were devastatingly powerful and fluid.....Japanese influenced or not.

Osu!!

[powerof0ne]

No argument here Joe! I may one day "invent my own art" but it will more or less just be a combination of what I've learned and what I find the most effective. By doing so, I'm not going to make up some crazy history, though. I guess there was definitely a trend with many of the Asian martial arts at one point making up a crazy history.

A lot of good kickboxers and knockdown karateka that are good with kicks have a TKD background that I know, so it's definitely good for something when applied. There are also Muay Thai camps that many don't know have a TKD connection. When you see flashy kicks in Muay Thai,often times this comes from that TKD connection, because they were just modified/blended with MT, is all. Unfortunately some of the Thai community wants to feed us Farang/foreigners that this is Muay Boran, Muay Chaya, Lerdit, krabri kabrong or what have you..LOL

I would say for the most part the Okinawan and Japanese arts do a pretty good job of backing up their history but there is still a load of BS with some of it...

I encourage all of you to do some research, study other arts, start to put the pieces together on your own, that already have not. By doing so, over the years has caused me to be a lot more practical in how I apply and teach what I know.
Osu!

[hokuto12]

A friend of mine just sent me this link to an interview with Joe Rogan. Basically he is bagging TKD which surprises me a little since he spent so much of his life training and doing it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrH_Wfhk2kI

[powerof0ne]

Jul 8, 2013 20:04:37 GMT -5 hokuto12 said:

A friend of mine just sent me this link to an interview with Joe Rogan. Basically he is bagging TKD which surprises me a little since he spent so much of his life training and doing it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrH_Wfhk2kI

I'm not that surprised, I find it very refreshing how open and honest he is...and very believable. The fact that Rogan is a 9th planet jiu jitsu black belt under Eddie Bravo, has some kickboxing/Thaiboxing experience now sort of shows where his focus on training is.

p.s. Thanks for the link to the video Hokuto I actually like Joe Rogan for the most part when he's not talking about doing drugs, and why they're good.
Osu!