Kids and contact

[GJEC]

A instructor I used to recommend is in a lot of trouble for knocking kids around. I'm not happy to see him in that situation as I believe in his mind he was 'challenging' them in sparring and as we know accidents happen even in the best of clubs.

But it serves as a reminder. No matter how capable the child you simply cannot (legally) knock them down. You can go to court afterwards and talk about 'spirit' or 'budo' or 'tournament preparation' until you're blue in the face but in (UK) law you're on a sticky wicket.

There are many ways to encourage children and inspire them to greater achievements. Knocking them around is not one of them.

Gary

[alan]

Yes agreed Gary, i have never seen an instructor knock a kid about.

On this subject where do people stand on head contact for kids, a right grey area.

Most associations a head guard for under sixteens is compulsory, this is where similarities end.

Most insist on no face kicks/knees.

Some insist on "touch" contact to the head only with jodan mawashi, nothing else until over sixteen.

It appears that the IKK and IFK allow full power kicks to the head, over twelve years of age with a head guard nothing to the face.

I have emailed IFK Bulgaria for confirmation of the rules for the IFK European championships and have had no reply yet.

Now, where do we stand legally and morally allowing twelve year olds to get hit with roll kicks to the side of the head, or ushiro mawashi or suchlike and of course them doing it to other children, would you allow your child to participate? Head guards in my opinion are next to useless at stopping injury from this sort of kick.

I have to say i have witnessed children fighting under these rules particularly at the well run IKK open where they have a doctor, not a nurse at the edge of the mat and i have never seen a serious injury but what if?

Now, if i tell Bart i have decided he cannot compete under these rules this year i will get a major tantrum and perhaps his interest might wane.

IMHO i cannot see Bart getting caught with a serious kick to the head from somebody his own size and weight and age he has been training over three years and has four tournaments under his belt, two clicker and two knockdown...This is my dilemma.

Going back to line one of my post, before the IKK last year i had concerns about Bart keeping his hands up, his sparring was okay but he was a bit lazy keeping his hands up....so, i took him into my garden and put him through his paces for half an hour and then let him use me as a punch bag with me defending myself but everytime he dropped his hands i slapped him around the side of his head with a focus pad, not hard just a cuff to remind him, after a few minutes i could`t catch him around the head,at the tournament he kept his hands up!....eeerrrrrr guilty as charged your honour!

[senshido]

Yeah Gary, you have to be veeery careful these days, it's not something I do anyway, but accidents can happen.

Alan, I am not a fan of kids getting full contact kicks to the head and there is always the chance it can happen even with the tightest refereeing... it's a tough call.

[GJEC]

Two issues really:

1) The safety of the child rightly comes first. At a recent rugby match my son played in 8 players were injured and two taken to hospital for check ups. Contact happens. We fell off bikes without helmets and climbed trees. We can't be too risk averse but we need to be careful. A serious head injury is a life changer and as such I will not even referee kids 'full contact'. If it has full on head kicks I want no part of it. That's a personal view and I mean no criticism of those doing it.

2) As far as I understand 18 is the legal age in this country where we can consent to full contact fighting. I may be wrong - it's happened before - but I won't put my family at risk of a legal claim. Know this; I've seen it happen. Parents can one minute be singing your praises and the next taking legal advice if their little one gets hurt. We can debate the whys and wherefores all day but I have it on good authority that "I'm teaching Budo" is no defence.

Gary

[MMX]

That is unfortunate. We spar with the kids but I never put any power and mostly I just try to get them to hit me and move around. I try to boost their confidence but not let them make bad tactical moves.

[alan]

I have decided against Bulgaria, too much doubt, if people i trust go and advise me exactly what will happen in Israel in 14 months time an outside possibility, Bart will have been training 4 years and 4 months then and IF he progresses as much this year as he did last year and copes with Folkestone okay and perhaps another later in the year who knows, as it stands at the moment i am hoping to go to Folkestone as Trevor and the IKK are friends and i trust them but it is down to me if he gets injured or injures somebody else as i am fully aware of the possibilities.

[GJEC]

It's a fine line isn't it? We want them to get strong but in relative safety.

In Enshin, Kancho treats over 14's as seniors for tests and although the tests are 'only 80%' some of the adults are much stronger and heavier. I had fingers crossed the whole time when I had a 14 year old girl testing and breathed a huge sigh of relief when the ten fights were over.

In those situations we can only hope the adults have a sound moral compass.

I was refereeing at a European sabaki challege a few years ago and a 14 year old grabbed the top of another kids headguard and kneed him in the face. I asked for confirmation of the rules as I viewed this as a foul, but was told, "He's ok". My immediate thought was, "He might not be next time" and since then I have politely declined to referee juniors under sabaki rules - even wearing headguards.

Again, this is just a personal decision and no criticism is implied.

Gary

[MMX]

Well if you are a 6' 204lb male like me you have no business using more than 20% power on anyone under 16 really. I think people need to use some common sense. It is slowly disappearing from everywhere for some reason.

[alan]

I have decided not to take Bart to Bulgaria this time, too many unknowns.

I am sure Folkestone is going to have a happy ending, the IKKU are keen and Trevor as normal is going out of his way to help them, it goes to show how important friendships within associations are.

[GJEC]

A wise decision in my opinion. He'll understand.

I had an email on this last night talking about how hard the Russian kids are and how the UK kids need to toughen up if they want to win.

Not sure a court would see it that way.

Gary

[Alwyn]

Yes Gary, I agree.  The trend seems to be more and more for children to fight contact especially in Europe where laws of the land differ.  Sosai Oyama only held full contact Knockdown tournaments for adults - if it was good enough for him it's good enough for me- after all he was the founder of Kyokushin and Knockdown!!

We have a duty of care for children to protect them, there are many tournaments with light/ semi contact for our children to develop their fighting prowess utilising protection and rules.  In a Dojo you are sparring to improve - in a competition there is immense pressure to win so kids will get carried away - I wouldn't like to be the one to explain to a parent their child is paralysed or worse due to a full contact head kick allowed within the rules - would you?

[senshido]

I have to say I agree Alwyn, I personally only have clicker for children.