residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Nov 29, 2015 19:42:47 GMT -5
Hello again -
Thought I'd add this reflection I'm having right now.
At my dojo, as per Kyokushin standards, face punches are nor allowed. I'm starting to think this is a handicap when you face an opponent from a different style or martial art. Because if I don't deal with something during training, then I can't use it properly or defend against.
Just had a discussion on defensive/attack techniques with an experienced Muay Thai/Jiu Jitsu practitioner. He demonstrated how easily it is to connect with a head strike. I really didn't see it coming, as I was concentrated on parrying his low kick attack. I'm sure if I experience this over and over at my dojo, in time I'd be able to come up with some sort of defensive or evasion tactic.
So... to avoid getting clobbered in the head/face again, maybe it'd be a good idea to take some boxing lessons to address this weakness? Or maybe MT?
OSU!
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Post by meguro on Nov 30, 2015 5:04:36 GMT -5
You're cutting the checks. What do you want from your training? This vid might help you focus your thoughts.
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residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Nov 30, 2015 8:23:16 GMT -5
Checked the video. What does "cutting the checks" mean? To answer your question, I'd like to learn effective, basic, self defense skills that would get me out hairy situations, more or less.
The guy on the video has some very valid points that I've read before here: avoid staying on the ground in a street fight situation, knifes and weapons may be involved, MMA works in a MMA context with MMA rules... Interesting bit about Win Chun vs box fights in China a la Ip Man 2. OSU!
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Post by senshido on Nov 30, 2015 9:04:19 GMT -5
In the UK (I've realised over the years that we seem to be the only country doing this) we have "clicker rules" fighting which has controlled head strikes... I'm really surprised that no one else seems to be doing this. This is in addition to knockdown.
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Post by meguro on Nov 30, 2015 9:39:05 GMT -5
Checked the video. What does "cutting the checks" mean? To answer your question, I'd like to learn effective, basic, self defense skills that would get me out hairy situations, more or less. Cutting the check, essentially you are paying for, therefore responsible for, your training. Senshido brings up a good point, clicker rules. Perhaps you can talk to your instructor. Others might be interested and you might be able to arrange some informal/formal training. Good self-defense skills might be boiled down to controlling your position. That can mean living in a safe neighborhood, taking the high ground, or clinching and throwing. Almost every type of martial art will teach you their approach to addressing this problem. You have focused on face punching. I think it's an itch you want to scratch, so go for it.
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residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Nov 30, 2015 13:19:49 GMT -5
We do clicker, as we're with the IFK. I didn't mention it because we don't make conatct. We just hit the air close to head. Never direct tsukis to the face tho-the allowed techniques are tetsui mae yoko uchi jodan, tetsui oroshi, uraken mawashi uchi.
OSU!
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azam
Member
Posts: 79
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Post by azam on Nov 30, 2015 14:39:42 GMT -5
I had the same issue as well residentrenzo.
It is a very big handicap - unfortunately it's one that isn't always immediately apparent until you trying sparring under rules that aren't knockdown. Another huge one is the lack of grappling.
I don't think clicker is a solution nor does it really remedy the flaws - you need full contact. I think though that you have to be aware though of the potential brain trauma from sparring more realistically or filling in the holes that you current training doesn't fill for you. It depends entirely on what you want from your training.
My advice is pick up boxing or kickboxing. Better yet pick up Kudo or Enshin or any other offshoot that has grappling or includes punches to the face.
MT is a great art but imho punches aren't their forte - although the clinch is a must to learn.
When I had this issue - I started training Kudo & Judo on the side while still training Kyokushin - although now I don't really care about belt progression anymore in KK. I do it more for the conditioning/kicking repertoire than anything else and because it's essentially half of Kudo - it fits in with Kudo.
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GJEC
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LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Nov 30, 2015 15:04:08 GMT -5
I never trained face punches once I got the knockdown bug, but as a silly young man I had plenty of brawls and always prevailed.
I don't say that to be big headed, I just found that hard punches to the body usually worked well to the face. Knee kicks even better.
So what can I say? The crucial thing is to believe you can hurt your opponent enough in mind and body to get them to bail out.
I was strong and I believed in myself. Still do.
Gary
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residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Nov 30, 2015 15:51:53 GMT -5
No Kudo or Enshin here. I'd really like to try the later as their concepts of sabaki and kata applications make a lot of sense and of course grappling is something I want to practice more. Yes, head trauma is something I'm very aware of as well as having my nose broken again. Was thinking about learning some boxing drills and practice on bag. Not sparring, as I'd get seriously hurt going against more experienced people. OSU
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Post by meguro on Nov 30, 2015 16:27:07 GMT -5
Any FMA?
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Post by slaine on Nov 30, 2015 16:36:27 GMT -5
I'm with Gary on this , I've never found it a handicap to switch from body to head as to me a punch is a punch , once it's delivered correctly it doesn't matter the target , on a sidenote I've always hated clicker.
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Nov 30, 2015 16:50:05 GMT -5
1.25 is a lovely combination that - gasp - is trained in knockdown. Low punch to hook.
I worked on it a lot.
Worked fine. I never worried about defence for face punches, I just got in first.
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residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Nov 30, 2015 21:57:39 GMT -5
Nice video! Can`t make all of the dialogue, that accent is a bit on the thick side Correct me if I'm wrong but does the man in a suit has professional boxing training/experience? Perhaps something about the way he weaved in and out. I noticed he was quite close just before the combo, so maybe it's something about maai? Anyway, it's a nice combination to learn and practice. Not on kyokushin tho - can't risk punching someone in the head. Quite likely if practice that till it's second nature. To make things clear, I was "sucker punched" while I was looking down during leg block. I then tried to connect a "clicker body punch" but the guy got me again at the upper lip. With speed and accuracy. If he had meant it, he could've knocked my front teeth. Obviously I'm doing something wrong. If I get hit first on face that easily, then I have to do something about face defence. OSU.
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residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Nov 30, 2015 22:15:23 GMT -5
I'm with Gary on this , I've never found it a handicap to switch from body to head as to me a punch is a punch , once it's delivered correctly it doesn't matter the target , on a sidenote I've always hated clicker. Not a fan of clicker as well. I was asked by my Sensei to participate in a small clicker tournament. Did it and got frustrated because I was forced to stay close and deliver "air punches". Couldn't do kicks as I was told my kicks are slow and easy to see (faster, nimble guys usually scored an ippon on me with their mawashi jodan). Looked more like kangaroo fighting to me I do believe speed and accuracy in clicker practice are good but without power it could be a bad habit of not connecting properly. I understand the need for it though - as regular people who lead regular lives can't get hurt and broken on a weekly basis. What was the point on doing that instead of drilling my kicks? I believe I'd be better off working on technique first, cardio and then strength. Grappling and some close combos. But I'm on my own for that and don't know much besides standard kyokushin syllabus Now, to be clear, I'm not looking down on my current training. I'm more fit and relaxed than I usually used to be when I did kumite. But for self defence skills? Not so sure. I'd rely on leg power, just run for it and don't look back OSU.
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Post by meguro on Dec 1, 2015 5:01:15 GMT -5
A punch is a punch, but Kyokushin can develop fighters with a poor sense of the punching range. It was a criticism made by my former Kudo instructor. He said Kyokushin guys who switch to Kudo always stand too close in the beginning and catch a beating. I did catch some beatings, and head butts too. He didn't think much of the low kick either; if you were close enough to low kick him, he was close enough to throw hooks at you head, and he favored the odds of connecting with a hook over those of a low kick. For self-defense, I think it is a fine strategy to always get the first shot in. If you will be trading face punches as sport, or if the first shot is missed, some dedicated training wouldn't be a waste of time.
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