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Post by meguro on Dec 7, 2015 6:19:07 GMT -5
This is sort of related to the face punching thread(s) here and throughout the interwebz. Perhaps you're familiar with the Toronto study of 111 homeless men, that found that close to half suffered a traumatic brain injury prior to their becoming homeless. The numbers are quite startling. What can be done? One way, I suppose, is to restrict the types of dojo practices that might lead to sport related injury. On the other hand, in this particular study, assault was the leading cause of TBI, so preparing students ought to be an obligation. Thoughts? www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/29/traumatic-brain-injury-homelessness_n_5227637.html |
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GJEC
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LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
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Post by GJEC on Dec 7, 2015 7:12:28 GMT -5
My personal opinion is "avoid things that cause brain injury", be that in the dojo or outside.
The causes of injury in sport are often repeated concussion in sports such as boxing and rugby. Outside a lot of head injuries are secondary, as in when heads hit a pavement. (One I understand well having once - legitimately - nearly killed someone)
Should we punch the head to prepare against the chances of that? Can we learn to block pavements? As assailants often operate in pairs where one distracts while one sucker punches, isn't general awareness much more relevant?
These are all complex questions to which I claim no great knowledge. I'm not convinced one to one head punching in controlled conditions prepares us for 'da street'.
Putting away smartphones and staying focussed and alert just might.
Gary
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residentrenzo
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The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
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Post by residentrenzo on Dec 11, 2015 17:22:56 GMT -5
OSU!
Obviously nothing can prepare us for "da street" - if that were possible, assailants would be beaten and bested more often. And let's not ignore the fact that numbers do matter in a fight: muggers or predators usually attack (at least) in pairs. So no matter how strong, trained and resilient you are, facing greater numbers against you, the odds are very bad. And there's the panic/adrenaline factor. Untrained people (like me) would likely mess up dealing with "under stress" situations.
General street awareness is a very basic skill you'd learn quickly growing up in big cities of Latin America. I did learn the hard way, being bullied and mugged twice when I was a kid in Mexico City. And then I had an older brother who would usually wrestle me to the hard ground. No tatamis or soft ground below... got some nasty bruises but also valuable lessons.
I did get kicked hard on the head couple of times in the dojo. No complaints. I did get my meniscus torn. No complaints either. It's karate after all and this more or less, happens. And I know people here have been through far, far worse injuries.
I'm not stupid as to block punches with my bare face. But at the very least I'd like to learn more on bobbing and weaving the way boxers do. Doesn't mean I'd ever go full on sparring against trained boxers. I never go full force against my mates at dojo (I'd get beaten to a pulp if I did) so why would I do it? Ideally, I'd like to study systems that would have me learn punches, kicks and takedowns. At least some basic skills that can be driller over and over.
BTW I'm not a big fan of Clicker system either, but at least I recognise its usefulness for practising technique and speed.
OSU!
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Post by Tay on May 4, 2016 8:48:07 GMT -5
This topic reminds me of a movie I recently watched about concussions in NFL players and based on true stories, it's called Concussion: www.imdb.com/title/tt3322364/It's actually a decent movie too. |
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Post by meguro on May 5, 2016 8:34:21 GMT -5
Has anyone ever witnessed a personality change due to concussion? Apparently depression, hyper aggression or forgetfulness can result. I remember lightly nailing a Kudo instructor with a jump spinning back kick, which resulted in a red-mist flurry of head butts in response. WTF, I thought. Some weeks later I saw a tournament video of that same instructor getting set-up with a jump spinning back kick and getting KTFO with an upper cut. He was laid out. I'm guessing he was working out some demons, and the jsbk I threw triggered a flash-back.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on May 5, 2016 9:18:55 GMT -5
Has anyone ever witnessed a personality change due to concussion? Apparently depression, hyper aggression or forgetfulness can result. I remember lightly nailing a Kudo instructor with a jump spinning back kick, which resulted in a red-mist flurry of head butts in response. WTF, I thought. Some weeks later I saw a tournament video of that same instructor getting set-up with a jump spinning back kick and getting KTFO with an upper cut. He was laid out. I'm guessing he was working out some demons, and the jsbk I threw triggered a flash-back. Or maybe he was just a **** All joking aside though, we should monitor anyone who gets caught for mental as well as physical injuries. Sadly we're under qualified in that role so we must be brave enough to cut people out if they act like ****. I kept one guy on far too long despite violent outbursts. Never again. Gary |
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azam
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Post by azam on May 5, 2016 16:29:03 GMT -5
I know that I had pretty noticeable headaches the first time I sparred with head punches.
It did worry me to some degree but I think with martial arts & combat sports it's difficult to avoid.
Even in the safest scenarios in or outside the dojo - your always open to the possibility of some degree of trauma/concussion. I mean it happens in daily life & may happen in any training environment.
The experience & lesson I took away from those first initial headaches - was that I don't want to be put in a position where I'm getting punched in the head cleanly and as a result of that it made me focus on really trying to improve & master my fundamentals so I'm never in a position where I get hit or take abuse.
It made me put value in learning to be able to control distance, use angles (tai sabaki) & get in good positions before committing myself to a strike. To find ways that I can hit someone with out getting hit cleanly myself. I mean that should be the goal in sparring/fighting where this stuff occurs - for some reason I don't always see it.
And most importantly try to train safely wherever possible & always allow my body the time to recover sufficiently before going at it again.
I think it's also changed my mind on how much sparring one should do & at what intensity. I've been to a lot of places where the sparring is hard - and I don't think that's necessarily the smartest way to train. I don't think training like that is conducive to long term training & more than likely will burn you before long.
I wonder Meguro - if that Kudo instructor whom you nailed lightly - sparred hard. I know from the Kudo lessons I've been to & knowing how the competition format works (1x3min round with 2x3min extensions in case of no clear winner) - sparring hard is an endemic issue - as it is in a lot of places still. I think sparring hard has it's place but I think sparring lightly more frequently with occassional harder spars every week or 2 seems the way to go.
Makes me wonder whether earlier martial artists & karateka were aware of the issues hard sparring or full contact sparring brought. Makes me wonder whether Mas Oyama - was well aware of the dangers of concussions/brain trauma.
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Post by meguro on May 6, 2016 5:00:12 GMT -5
Or maybe he was just a **** All joking aside though, we should monitor anyone who gets caught for mental as well as physical injuries. Sadly we're under qualified in that role so we must be brave enough to cut people out if they act like ****. I kept one guy on far too long despite violent outbursts. Never again. Gary I think the reason this particular sparring session stands out among all the others, Gary, and there were many others through out the years, was the complete lack of restraint so much so that it stopped all the action in the MMA gym we were sharing space in. The Muay Thai guys couldn't comprehend what they were seeing. This wasn't hard sparring, Azam. The guy had lost his tether, I'm convinced. We sparred only a week or so after his spectacular tournament KO. He probably should have been under the care of a neurologist. There is value in sparring hard, but like anything else there are variables that can turn a useful experience into something less so: Frequency; equipment; matching opponents; rules and conditions. While eliminating face punching might reduce head trauma from punching, it does nothing about high kicks. Boxing is moving towards the elimination of head gear. I don't think Kudo rules have caught to this thinking. I'm not sure that there is a way to make an inherently dangerous activity safe. More information will enable better choices. |
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