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Post by powerof0ne on Mar 31, 2011 9:21:55 GMT -5
Look, I don't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers but I've always wondered "where does the gedan mawashi geri come from in Karate?". I then thought it had to come from Muay Thai but never had really any proof since I was never "there" and don't have a time machine..and nobody really said anything until recently.
*SPOILER of Martial Arts Weekly interview*
Bluming Kaicho says Kyokushin did not even have the "leg kick" (gedan mawashi geri) until the very infamous story of Kyokushin fighters going to Thailand. Which would mean the "leg kick" wasn't in Kyokushin until then. He said before then there were no leg kicks (correct me if I'm wrong).
I know Bluming says stuff that not everybody agrees with but if what he says is true it all makes sense and is simple to understand. In my limited experience the truth is usually simple.
I will not even try to debate that the way the "leg kick" is done in Kyokushin is different then how it is done in Muay Thai but that's evolution for you. Look how different Tae Kwon Do kicks are then most Karate kicks and TKD did mostly come from Karate (I don't care what some romantic history says).
What are some of your thoughts, ideas, disagreements with this?
Osu!
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Mar 31, 2011 10:16:52 GMT -5
Low kicks only really started in the UK after the first (1975) world tournament. I remember the squad members talking in awe about Royama, as he was the best low kicker there.
Before that we did what I'd call 'heavy' points fighting.
Gary
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Post by MMX on Mar 31, 2011 11:05:41 GMT -5
That is the same thing the is repeated in "My Journey in Karate"
When Ninomiya and the other Japanese fighters came to the USA to train the US fighters had not seen the "low kick" before.
That would also be after Soeno and the others had gone to Thailand to compete Kyokushin vs Muay Thai in the late 60's.
I would say for certain that it was brought over from Muay Thai.
Even the Roundhouse in Kyokushin changed after that. Before that it was more like the traditional and not used often Shotokan style Roundhouse.
At least from what I have read.
Osu!
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curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
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Post by curlbroscience on Mar 31, 2011 11:58:44 GMT -5
I remember after watching Fighting Black Kings for the first time thinking to myself, "This looks a lot like what a Full Contact Shotokan tournament would be like. A lot of Jodan Mawashi Geri followed by a hard Gyaku Tsuki.
I don't remember where but I think someone mentioned that when Royama used the gedan mawashi geri the other teams that it was called a "Row Kick" because his corner would yell for it.
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Post by powerof0ne on Mar 31, 2011 12:30:52 GMT -5
I remember after watching Fighting Black Kings for the first time thinking to myself, "This looks a lot like what a Full Contact Shotokan tournament would be like. A lot of Jodan Mawashi Geri followed by a hard Gyaku Tsuki. I don't remember where but I think someone mentioned that when Royama used the gedan mawashi geri the other teams that it was called a "Row Kick" because his corner would yell for it. I wouldn't be surprised if if his corner pronounced it "row kick" one bit, or "reg kick"  . Osu! |
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Post by mitch on Mar 31, 2011 19:09:08 GMT -5
... how different Tae Kwon Do kicks are then most Karate kicks and TKD did mostly come from Karate (I don't care what some romantic history says). Osu! TKD initially comes from Shotokan. Gen Choi is a Dan grade in Shotokan so he takes those techniques into the army where a bunch of tough hombres spar with them, full contact. Sometimes they use hogus made of bamboo tubes wrapped in canvas and the bamboo tubes are often broken. TKD later becomes fractured due to political reasons. There is no doubt though that in the early days TKD was tough. There is no doubt that it often isn't anymore. I forget the proper definition of TKD free sparring, but essentially it's, "everything you can do." The fact that most TKD dojangs don't do that anymore is down to popularisation and the resultant requirements of organisations through the 80/90s, a move which may soon come to bite them on the behind with the advent of UFC. All IMO of course  Mitch |
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Post by powerof0ne on Mar 31, 2011 23:15:08 GMT -5
Some of the old Kwans have shudokan and shito ryu roots but most TKD kwan mostly does have shotokan roots so that's a good generlization.
I forgot which kwan has shito ryu roots but I know Jidokwan has some shudokan and judo roots off the top of my head.
Anyhow, I've even seen gedan mawashi geri in older footage that resembled more of the Muay Thai way of doing it versus now which has became IMHO its own "way".
Osu!
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