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Post by senshido on Dec 12, 2011 8:08:30 GMT -5
I always thought that the Taikyoku's were there from the start... maybe your lineage wasnt always Kyokushin and when they joined/became kyokushin they were added?... I'm just guessing here?
To be perfectly honest and to my shame I'm pretty ignorant of Kyokushin in the US
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Post by MMX on Dec 12, 2011 11:54:08 GMT -5
When I was in IKO1 not only did we have the 3 original Taikyoku kata but also the Sokugi versions of the 3!
I did a lot of Taikyoku...to this day I can probably still do all 6 in my sleep.
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Dec 12, 2011 12:11:54 GMT -5
It's funny, but I can hardly remember any KK kata. Obviously wasn't paying attention!
Gary
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Post by senshido on Dec 12, 2011 16:00:33 GMT -5
It's funny, but I can hardly remember any KK kata. Obviously wasn't paying attention! Gary Bad boy!! ;D |
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evergrey
Member
Get over yourself, mate.
Posts: 854
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Post by evergrey on Dec 12, 2011 17:00:31 GMT -5
Haha, well actually the person at the head of my lineage (except Sosai) met Oyama in the late 50s, early 60s, and started learning from him then. Before that, he was a Judoka. He also did Hun Gar kung fu, and some Aikijutsu as well I believe, though the latter two may have been later. Duke Moore introduced the two of them, and I am told they were close. I'm not sure why he made some of the decisions he did. I know that Oyama did go and work on kata with Don Buck, before he had really cemeted them. I know there was a space of time when he didn't come by, I think in the 80s. There's a video out there of him awarding Don Buck a 7th dan, and Sosai did sign certificates sent back to the Honbu... I also know Sosai was here visiting for a tournament in 1991 at Hamilton base in Novato. He must have been somewhat aware of things going on here, but maybe not the minutae.
There are a lot of things that are mysterious to me, heh! But I'm learning the history, little drop by little drop, and it seems that with the newer generations of instructors, we have moved away from a number of the old quirks...
I do hear that Don Buck was a hell of a fighter though.
OSU
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Post by havamal on Dec 13, 2011 9:55:35 GMT -5
I don't see the point of Taikyoku at all. Pinan kata are enough for beginners.
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Post by powerof0ne on Dec 13, 2011 11:26:36 GMT -5
I don't see the point of Taikyoku at all. Pinan kata are enough for beginners. I can agree and disagree on this  . I've known some beginners, where the taikyoku is a very difficult thing for them to grasp, some people have serious problems with kata. Granted, I'd be lying if I said taikyoku is the kata I practice often in my own free time. The only time I really practice it these days, is when I'm reviewing it with my students. Osu! |
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Post by senshido on Dec 20, 2011 7:56:12 GMT -5
I think of the taikyoku's as an introduction to kata, and so a useful tool from my point of view
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fatjoe
Member
Just for Kicks
Posts: 98
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Post by fatjoe on Dec 20, 2011 9:49:16 GMT -5
Seems to me the problem with the taikyokus is the instruction and not the kata itself. I brought Ichi, Ni and San to life with my guys during some self defense drills and it blew them away. Combined with the sokugis I blended them as a street fighting demonstration using only the techniques found there. They were shocked that my jodan tsuki, became a jodun uke and how my uchi uke and gedan barai became strikes and parries transitioned into grabs and throws. Statement one...."4 years doing these katas and I never saw this done or thought of how to make this work!" another...."hey I can use this!!" and finally...."now I know how to make everything work." all very rewarding statements from guys who have trained for years but did not understand the relationship between kata/kihon and kumite with Self Defense.
I must give credit to Dent, Bobh, Shurenkan and a number of my former instructors as they have challenged the static nature and stagnation of kata. But even what I showed the guys can not be used with out understanding the basics first. And then practice, practice, practice.
Osu!
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Post by senshido on Dec 21, 2011 7:56:49 GMT -5
Have some exhalt Joe
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Post by amphinon on Aug 16, 2012 13:07:20 GMT -5
Personally, I only like Taikyoku sono itchi. I teach ni and san out of respect to what I had to learn for my novice ranks.
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Post by powerof0ne on Aug 24, 2012 1:58:31 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I stated earlier, I started out in shito ryu (hayashi ha) and we did an I pattern set of kata called "kihon kata," and kihon kata ichi is identical to taikyoku sono ichi, minus the way the musubi and heiko are done...but the kata is virtually the same. Only in kihon kata go is there a kick, a mae geri. Just like Kyokushin has ura and other variations, even...so does shito ryu, "gyaku tsuki" versions, and more.
I'm not a fan of taking a kata and adding more turns, reverse punches, etc..just for the sake of an exercise. To me, a kata needs to have a purpose that is for defense/combat/kumite...other wise just do some ido geiko/kihon for the sake of drilling some more complicated drills. However, this is just my opinion.
Osu!
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Post by kyokanrik on Oct 5, 2013 18:51:14 GMT -5
I'll retract what I originally said about sono san but sono ni is necessary? Ura? This isn't something I'm trying to convince anybody to change but just something I've been thinking about lately as I teach and watch my own students do kata. Osu! It's refreshing, as a student, to know that there are instructors out there (including my own) who are open minded as you seem to be when it comes to training and what may or may not be practical. I am curious if, 2 years later, you have indeed implemented any change in your instruction or not and how it's coming along. Osu! |
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Post by karate4life on May 10, 2015 5:06:02 GMT -5
Warning -thread necromancy! In GoJu Kai Karate we had six (!) Taikyoku katas that served as an introduction to more advanced katas like Gekisai Dai Ichi and Ni (Think Gekisai Dai in Kyokushin). I always understood those as tools to introduce beginners to the concept of kata, but nothing more. I certainly don't practise them anymore, it must have been more than a decade that I bothered to do any Taikyoku Kata outside the dojo (in Kyokushin I was bombed with them, and frankly, I was bored to death). Here are some videos: Taikyoku Jodan: www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_ggx2YwwrcTaikyoku Mawashi Uke: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDaWBIfs-G8Taikyoku Kake Uke: www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cb7OZQdsv0Taikyoku Gedan: www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGesa6FIdVgPut them all together, and you have Gekisai Dai Ichi and Ni. Osu! |
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Post by meguro on May 13, 2015 5:12:11 GMT -5
Did you ever wonder why, besides turning to face yet another opponent (insert eye rolling emoticon) we step and turn the way we do? These movements are similar to, perhaps even drawn from other martial arts, and in those martial arts the footwork has meaning. In your Taikyoku Mawashi Uke and Taikyoku Kake Uke, the demonstrators step back to center in a stylistic manner (raised heel drawn behind). In Silat such a step would be used to roll the opponent's ankle resulting in a break/takedown. Even the humble Taikyoku Kata offers more than appearances would indicate. Kata, even fancy ones, will get boring eventually if done as a dance, but the applications can keep you engaged for a long time.
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. I've known some beginners, where the taikyoku is a very difficult thing for them to grasp, some people have serious problems with kata. 
