GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 13, 2012 6:20:32 GMT -5
OK For those that love a challenge - It's no secret that I'm no fan of bunkai, although I respect some of the individuals - like Iain Abernethy - that have made it their domain. So I thought - after reading various threads where people sing it's praises - I'd suggest a simple challenge to test it's effectiveness. 1) Get a friend or training partner to specify three possible attacks they might make. Rehearse the bunkai for each until you are confident it works really well. 2) Sprint 400 yards absolutely flat out. No holding back, 100%. If space is a problem, do full bastards (burpees with a clap & tuck jump) until you can do no more. 3) Your opponent then immediately attacks using any of the drills you rehearsed earlier*. "BUT!" - I hear you cry - "that's not realistic" Really? The idea of the sprint or burpees is to spike your heart rate and make you feel sick, exactly what a huge dose of fear and adrenaline does. If complex skills do not work under those conditions - bearing in mind you're only facing a controlled application of one of the three skills you have already drilled, not an unknown and unpredictable opponent - it's a fair bet they won't be reliable for self-protection. Let us know how it goes ... Gary *(Keep safety in mind. KDF will not be liable for accidents!)
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Post by meguro on Apr 13, 2012 8:08:33 GMT -5
I'm with you on this, Gary. A good bit of skepticism can keep you alive, at least away from nonsense. The Kudo format, I believe, is a good way to sort out the nonsense. It is similar to Enshin in many respects, and I suppose Charnwood Karate too. One thing I am starting to give some thought to is the scenario where the attacker is trying to stab and slash with a knife. It changes the dynamic of the fight completely and does put emphasis on getting control of the knife hand instead of simply giving as good as you get. Here, I admit to be out of my depth.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 13, 2012 9:12:08 GMT -5
One of the legends of combatives - W E Fairbairn - stated there was no 'best' way to deal with a knife with the possible exception of running or a lightning fast kick in the nuts.
When pressed on what he preferred, he quietly said, "I don't do lightning fast any more".
I did Lee Morrisons excellent 'On the sharp edge' course a few years ago and that too just persuaded me that running was a better option if at all possible.
As a dad, I suppose the nightmare scenario is someone breaking in and threatening your family with a knife. What would I do? I really don't know. I have a few things in the house which might help (which I won't type about here for obvious reasons), but as I learnt in my Fire Service career, everyone has a plan until it happens ...
Gary
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Post by Ros on Apr 13, 2012 10:13:04 GMT -5
Any bunkai that I've thought sounded sensible has always been fairly simple and vicious (from what I remember of various seminars) and breaking kata down into various applications hasn't seemed much different to me from normal partner drills. Full power and speed partner drills with eye gouges, groin kicks and elbows sounds a bit dangerous if you ask me.
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Post by MMX on Apr 13, 2012 11:05:12 GMT -5
A great way to test training for sure. When you are at your limit you will only do what is instinct/engrained.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 13, 2012 12:02:58 GMT -5
Full power and speed partner drills with eye gouges, groin kicks and elbows sounds a bit dangerous if you ask me. Fair point. Original post amended. Gary
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blacktiger
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Post by blacktiger on Apr 13, 2012 15:24:17 GMT -5
Strange, I actually believe full heartedly in Bunkai, to me being able to perform bunkai instinctively is what kata training is all about, if it isn't why practice kata, just do what the freestyle karate guys do and have a few self defence techniques thrown in to the pot, to "complete" the mix. To me no need for a self-defence syllabus if you know how to "work" the kata and I have used my kata in street situations.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 14, 2012 5:18:02 GMT -5
So you know all the Bunkai for the traditional kata and can rely on maintaining your skills in an exhausted state? Good luck with that. (Looking forward to the demo!) I'll walk away from a confrontation if at all possible. But they might follow me! If so, as a last resort I'll stick to grabbing and repeatedly punching them in the face. If they cover up I'll knee them in the nuts then if they drop their hands I'll punch them in the face etc. If I'm up against it that's my kind of kata and my favourite bunkai. Gary
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Post by MMX on Apr 14, 2012 11:13:32 GMT -5
Also it is very easy and effective. 2 things I like.
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blacktiger
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Post by blacktiger on Apr 14, 2012 17:05:16 GMT -5
I actually used Techniques from Jissen Kata an Nage Kata from my Ashihara Karate. I've never been knackered cause I've never ran. Its the line in the sand stuff. Kata is not just for passing gradings! If that's the case its like learning to swim on the sand! This is where "Shu Ha Ri" comes into play!
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 15, 2012 1:30:04 GMT -5
OK
We've moved the goalposts here as the Ashihara (and Enshin) kata were specifically designed to be practical.
The bunkai I was referring to are the obscure traditional kata bunkai explanations that often come straight out of fantasy land.
Under stress the body deliberately diverts blood away from the smaller muscle groups and attention from intricate details to prepare for gross survival movements. It makes much more sense to work with the body and drill gross movements for those situations.
Gary
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blacktiger
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Post by blacktiger on Apr 15, 2012 4:02:07 GMT -5
Totally agree with you Gary on this point, hence why I also make sure I attended your seminars when I can. Traditional kata to me as I practice both are stand-up grappling kata nothing more. I hate when they teach defences from the typical step forward and punch scenario as its about as realistic as Stockport County winning the FA Cup! When I teach bunkai the "attacker" counts quickly 1-2-3 and hit again, as again your attacker does not leave his arm out for you to do whatever you want - this is only for movies!
With regards to running, I'm a big lad, not designed to run and since seeing "active" service in the armed forces, one of my cogs pinged lol. I use the infamous Traffic lights to prepare and teach that!
I must add though that I find Pinan Sandan (sono san) a perfect kata for "sparring" against WadoRyu, Shotokan and ShitoRyu KarateKa. Another Kata I think is really practical is Niseishi (Nijushiho) especially when "adapted" to Sabaki.
OSU!!
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 15, 2012 4:08:19 GMT -5
If it works for you, fair play to you.
I know I'd rather escape if at all possible but leave little to chance if I can't.
Gary
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Post by meguro on Apr 15, 2012 7:43:18 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I'm on terra firma when I assert that chudan shuto mawashi uchi is not a "karate chop" to the ribs but an elbow wrap as seen in this clip, only performed with speed and intent.
A hook punch to the ribs would be much more devastating than a shuto strike, would it not, so why the redundancy? Chudan shuto mawashi uchi can't be a strike. I believe the elbow wrap is a response to your lapel or shoulder being grabbed, as presumably the attacker is preparing to punch your face vigorously and repeatedly.
There is nonsense being passed off as bunkai, and rightfully so should remain in fantasy land. But there's useful stuff too. I think it extremely difficult to "grab punches and redirect" as many traditional bunkai suggest. Whoever suggests that has never been on the receiving end of a flurry of punches. It is much easier to grab the hand that's grabbing your arm, or is about to choke you, and then go about limb destruction.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 15, 2012 12:58:28 GMT -5
We all have a limited amount of time to devote to training, so why not become really good at stuff we know works in the melee? Gary
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