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Fakes
May 6, 2012 14:21:46 GMT -5
Post by powerof0ne on May 6, 2012 14:21:46 GMT -5
Due to the innovations of forums, facebook, etc. I communicate with many other instructors, some that post on here about how to deal with students, tips on training, logistics of running a dojo, and so forth. I also come across information on a new fake instructor at least once a week, and this is over the last 10 years or so, meaning, I've lost track.
I used to foam at the mouth about exposing such people, but it's pointless, and a waste of energy.
With that being said, here's my advice, and it's pretty simple:
1. Just because somebody is nice, doesn't mean they're legit. 2. If your instructor is a high grade, and nobody outside your dojo has heard of him/her, you should be suspicious. 3. Ask around, validate your instructor's credentials, be tactful in asking your instructor (An instructor shouldn't have a problem saying their credentials, if so, that's a huge warning flag) 4. Just because a dojo says they're x style, doesn't mean they really are x style.
I'm not starting this thread as a place to post fake instructor's names, but just a general guide line for any beginner student. To the beginner student: You're the one that wants to probably pay money as that's what most dojo accept, and put in the time, blood and sweat (there's no crying in karate!) so you should do your research.
Another thing, when somebody earns a "not so legit" black belt most of them aren't usually prone to admit to it and go somewhere else and start over again.
What prompted me to post this was somebody on facebook posting a bunch of pics of somebody else who is fake and has a lot of fakes under him...I'll just leave it at that. This isn't a witch hunt. Osu!
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Fakes
May 7, 2012 1:54:38 GMT -5
Post by GJEC on May 7, 2012 1:54:38 GMT -5
I think you have to look at each dojo on merit.
I teach this as a sport, not as 'Budo' or 'Jutsu', so to me
RESULTS count more than affiliation.
Gary
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Post by powerof0ne on May 7, 2012 8:13:32 GMT -5
True Gary but you learned under other instructors and affiliations at one time. It's not like you woke up one day with less then black belt training, promoted yourself to black belt and opened up a dojo.
What caused me to start this thread is being informed a while back of an instructor here in the USA that made it to green belt under a known instructor. He left this instructor and all of a sudden was promoted to nidan or sandan by his Dad or Uncle that weren't even kyokushin and opened his own dojo...has his own "black belts" under him now, etc. I know of this because his original instructor contacted me and informed me. He didn't post it in public.
Gary I don't think anybody here considered you a fake. You're known, don't hide your background, have experience and skill, graded under known legit people, etc. To me, affiliation doesn't matter in the end, but others may disagree. Osu!
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Fakes
May 7, 2012 9:04:42 GMT -5
Post by meguro on May 7, 2012 9:04:42 GMT -5
The thing about karate is, it's not rocket science. There seems to be wide latitude in what is accepted. The bit about sport and body mechanics is easily absorbed by the athletically inclined. The rest, the tradition, is so unexamined, a little shaking up or revision wouldn't hurt. When it comes to calling out phonies, it's tough. I imagine Mas Oyama was labelled a phony and upstart by the traditional karateka of his day.
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Fakes
May 7, 2012 18:36:03 GMT -5
Post by powerof0ne on May 7, 2012 18:36:03 GMT -5
I guess what's effective, not the name of what style because not everyone that is "x style" will be effective, is what matters to me. What woke me up to this, I must admit, was Muay Thai for me, thankfully still in my teen years, but before that I was still "bedazzled" and brainwashed by those that were under whatever grand pooba just because of their rank..instead of looking at the reality of who's effective, and who's not. The reason why I say Muay Thai and not karate, knockdown karate, etc. is because it was the first martial art I ever studied where your ability and real fighting experience made your place in the school. There were no paper dragons with high ranks that couldn't kumite worth a damn. Unfortunately, even in knockdown karate I still see a very uneven grading system across the range of everything called karate, kyokushin, shotokan, goju ryu, shito ryu, etc. etc. One example is Gary O'Neill is "only" a sandan, and I could find 10000 others higher then sandan, not half as skilled and experienced as Gary O'Neill without much effort. Does this mean O'Neill is undergraded? Perhaps, but keep in mind CQ is "only" a godan, as well. Honestly, many of us care far too much about rank, instead of progressing but that's just my opinion. This is my problem with all martial arts today because quite frankly, not everyone's effective, even if they're in a style I like, it doesn't mean they're good. The cold reality is, not everybody is going to be "good" and effective, no matter if they're the nicest people on the planet. There are still those in "classical styles" today that like to tell people that Kyokushin is a shotokan offshoot....LOL, guess shotokan is a shorin ryu off shoot if we're going to use that logic . Osu!
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Fakes
May 9, 2012 3:09:34 GMT -5
Post by GJEC on May 9, 2012 3:09:34 GMT -5
"Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate" - saw that on Jeff Whybrow's FB page and I've got to start living it. I've often fallen into the trap of questioning what others do instead of focussing on what really matters: - what I do and teach. Gary PS I'm going to try and keep out of kata threads. I don't do it or teach it so it's nothing to do with me.
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Fakes
May 9, 2012 4:14:15 GMT -5
Post by senshido on May 9, 2012 4:14:15 GMT -5
Poll... how long can gary bite his tongue!!
1 hour, 1 day, 1 week ;D
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Fakes
May 9, 2012 4:44:15 GMT -5
Post by GJEC on May 9, 2012 4:44:15 GMT -5
Fancy putting some money up? I'll keep out of k*** discussions for 1 year from today. I'll give £50 to Help the Heroes if I crack, will you send the same if I make it? I love a challenge ... Gary
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Fakes
May 9, 2012 7:03:10 GMT -5
Post by senshido on May 9, 2012 7:03:10 GMT -5
eh... no! you would be holding all the cards
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Fakes
May 9, 2012 7:17:55 GMT -5
Post by GJEC on May 9, 2012 7:17:55 GMT -5
LOL
Well spotted. I'll set myself the challenge anyway.
Gary
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Fakes
Jul 30, 2013 10:30:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 10:30:55 GMT -5
Years ago when I was looking at many different MA schools, I was irritated to see how sketchy many of the schools were. Too many instructors market their style as t3h mo$t d3ad|y, but don't teach full contact. It's one thing that's always annoyed me about MA.
PowerofOne: It was similar for me with regards to boxing and Muay thai. Trained at a boxing gym and then a little later a Muay Thai gym, and it opened my eyes to real training. But I felt like they lacked the tradition and spirit of knockdown karate.
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shugyo
Member
Proof Is On The Floor!!
Posts: 76
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Fakes
Aug 11, 2013 16:43:59 GMT -5
Post by shugyo on Aug 11, 2013 16:43:59 GMT -5
Fakes will be infecting the MA for sometime to come as long as there's no trusted central governing body, imho. Fakes destroy the fiber of the MA in such a way, no one can be trusted by the MA consumers. Proof is on the floor! The floor will decide whether one likes it to or not! Say whatever one wants to say concerning their rank/title, and so on and so forth; PROOF IS ON THE FLOOR!! Always has and always will be, imho.
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Fakes
Aug 11, 2013 22:13:30 GMT -5
Post by powerof0ne on Aug 11, 2013 22:13:30 GMT -5
I have a crap load of certificates in various styles, orgs, etc. I guess if someone glanced, they may think I'm fake but I don't have many "high" grades, I only have one. The rest are a couple shodan and nidan, and some kyu ranks, along with a MT instructor certificate. However, I wouldn't post I have a black belt in ___ styles as advertisement to gain students, because in my experience, it's not hard to branch out and get black belts in other styles of karate if you are a legitimate black belt in one...especially if they're similar styles! My days of wanting to go to a lot of different dojo to learn more, or to spar others that fight differently are pretty much over. Most of the reason is because most of the dojo near me these days wouldn't give me much more or because I'm so banged up that I couldn't spar at the intensity I'd like to for long. The latter truly sucks, and something I've been dealing with for a few years now. I really get into it with somebody sparring and have to quit due to the pain I'm in just by continuing to stand up. However, that's for another topic Great discussion guys! Osu! ps in the state where I live, there are not even a hand full of good karate dojo anymore...unless you're big into kata and pretty technique, I could point you to some that specialize in that.
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