GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
|
Post by GJEC on Oct 11, 2012 11:35:40 GMT -5
Put this on FB earlier but no comments. That either means it makes NO sense or PERFECT sense. Uploaded with ImageShack.us
|
|
|
Post by powerof0ne on Oct 11, 2012 11:46:28 GMT -5
I believed I clicked on the "like" button Osu!
|
|
|
Post by senshido on Oct 11, 2012 12:54:33 GMT -5
Perfect sense! was that all your own work Gary? ;D
|
|
|
Post by MMX on Oct 11, 2012 13:45:31 GMT -5
100% agreed Gary.
|
|
GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
|
Post by GJEC on Oct 11, 2012 14:48:11 GMT -5
Perfect sense! was that all your own work Gary? ;D I'd love to say it came in a flash of almost divine intervention, but no, just my observations of people looking for a new trick then getting twatted by people who hit harder. Gary
|
|
|
Post by meguro on Oct 11, 2012 17:50:24 GMT -5
Unfortunately, hitting harder than your opponent is not always an option, especially if the opponent is bigger and stronger. I liken the situation to the US auto industry before the gas crisis, where increasing engine size was never a problem. Then of course pollution control issues and gas prices shut down the muscle car niche for a long time.
Complexity for the sake of complexity is stupid. However, given certain limitations (physical size, strength, age, etc.) it may be necessary to become proficient at a few new tricks, as in the auto industry, where increased complexity is the rule today.
When you get down to it, the point of karate is to do more with less, empty hand and all that. If the "less" is physical, then one must be more cunning or forever be at the mercy of the bigger and stronger.
|
|
GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
|
Post by GJEC on Oct 12, 2012 0:45:48 GMT -5
Fair point.
The SBS motto: "By Strength and Guile" should apply for all.
But strength takes a lot of work, so it's far easier to put faith in the 'clever' stuff. That's a mistake in my opinion as the complex may fail under pressure.
"Advanced is the basics done well"
Gary
|
|
|
Post by senshido on Oct 12, 2012 3:12:45 GMT -5
I know what Gary means here, I've seen it first hand. Over the years I've been asked to sit on a few grading panels of "other styles", while doing this I've had the misfortune to see some very long and complicated self defense combinations that would only work with a very compliant partner who was willing to stand still for 30 seconds while you went through your rendition of the birdie dance, it's not pretty or effective. These combinations could have been replaced by a good punch to the jaw... job done! I take your point too Meguro, in that you might not be able to use the technique you want to depending on the opponent or situation, although I think what Gary was getting at was the "styles" that like to over complicate things to make themselves seem like they have something new to offer
|
|
GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
|
Post by GJEC on Oct 12, 2012 3:21:50 GMT -5
Got it in one!
Exalted!
Gary
|
|
curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
|
Post by curlbroscience on Oct 12, 2012 15:00:26 GMT -5
In thinking about this and some questions that came up after class how do you develop or can you develop that viciousness necessary to perform these type of techniques on a would be attacker?
I would be okay knocking someone's block off with a punch, but gouging out the eyes (Pinan sono Yon), breaking a neck, pulling their ears off or even attempting to rip someone's flesh or groin area off (Pinan sono go)?
|
|
GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
|
Post by GJEC on Oct 12, 2012 15:20:21 GMT -5
Why would you want to? It's easier (and usually more effective) to target the jawline. Gary
|
|
|
Post by meguro on Oct 13, 2012 7:01:02 GMT -5
Why would you want to? It's easier (and usually more effective) to target the jawline. Gary I agree whole heartedly, Gary. the difficulty I see is that if both my opponent and I are are operating from the same play book, the confrontation becomes more of a contest between punchers. I don't care for the better man winning. the only acceptable victor is myself (this being a self-defense situation), even if I might not be the better puncher. I guess I am arguing for winning by whatever means possible, and that might require a bit of flexibility in addressing the problem. Sotacram, were you not a little bit disturbed by the purple nurple approach to self-defense depicted in that vid? Not saying that pinching a handful of flesh won't leave a mark the next day, just that in that particular case, if I were the shirtless dummy, a punch or three to the jawline of an old geezer trying to grab my junk is the only appropriate response. ;D
|
|
GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
|
Post by GJEC on Oct 14, 2012 7:34:27 GMT -5
I've had a gutful of that kind of thing. I've seen it all over the world, not just in MA but in RBSD as well. Typical scenario: Sadistic or unbalanced instructor pulls out unfortunate disciple who feels protesting will somehow diminish his standing in the group. They then get tortured while the rest of the group feels a) I'm glad he isn't demonstrating on me, and b) Oh my! That's REALLY effective!! All bollocks of course. I'm surprised people put up with it. I occasionally clunk people harder than I intend to when demonstrating something but always apologise afterwards. Gary
|
|
curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
|
Post by curlbroscience on Oct 15, 2012 10:12:26 GMT -5
Gary and Meguro, I was disturbed at watching this and often associate these things with what Gary mentioned in those dark art self defense classes. I would definitely hate to be the shirtless man being made an example of. The things we do/used to do in the name of being a good Karateka. I know that these techniques exist in our kata and I have never practiced any sort of exchange in partner drills or kumite like the video referenced. It's always a block strike, take down/sweep and follow through. Never drag by the ears and vader choke as an initial response. Just shows the other side of the bunkai coin in brutality and viciousness. In terms of self defense I agree with Iain in terms of context. Self defense avoidance or seeking not to lose. In Kumite you are limited to safe techniques that you assume will not permanently damage your opponent. You can flip the switch but you know there is a safety net that prevents you from going all out on the guy. How can you safely practice these techniques? How do you reconcile the ability to execute permanently blinding someone in the name of self defense? I think there is a story of Gichin Funakoshi that tells of his remorse for retaliating against two muggers on his way home and permanently injuring them. The argument that always comes up is either he or I are leaving this place. But again back to what Iain said paraphrased if you are placed into a physical self defense situation then your initial karate training has failed you. Marc
|
|
curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
|
Post by curlbroscience on Oct 15, 2012 11:03:28 GMT -5
I'd like to share my story in regards to the above: In my previous position as a bank teller an old man hobbled into our branch reached under his shirt and said "I want 1,000 dollars." I jokingly said would you like to write a check or withdrawal slip to which he mentioned this is a robbery. I said are you joking? And he said no explicit and pretended to reach under his trousers like he was holding a gun. He scooped it up and said "call the cops." and turned and hobbled out. It took him 3 minutes to walk across the lobby making eye contact with me and greeting him. I took him another 3 minutes to walk back out. He walked in and didn't run out. Never looking back to see what we were doing. I could have easily jumped the counter and ippon'd him in the back of the head. One of the personal bankers actually walked behind him 6 feet clinching his fists. He even went as far as to tail him outside. I was commended for observing restraint. After some post follow up with the police months later, turns out the guy spent his whole life in and out of the system. He developed some type of medical condition but could not afford to be treated outside of prison. (Could Obamacare prevent this?) They did mention not to feel for this man because he was sent to prison earlier in his life for assault with a weapon. Going back to the original discussion, we learn how to react against an attacker in a certain way. Conditioning our response. When we are attacked, how will we react? When that doesn't work, what will we do then? Especially when the attacker is much stronger by the powers of Odin's beard? Gentleman's agreement between attacker and attackee? Only in the dojo.
|
|