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Post by meguro on Feb 14, 2013 8:41:21 GMT -5
I thought it better to take up this discussion here, rather the one dedicated to a karateka who was gunned down. I believe the gun control issue is similar to a sheep rancher whose flock is being decimated by wolves. The problem is wolves like to eat sheep, or there aren't enough sheep dogs. It is not the problem that wolves and sheep would get along well together if only the wolves didn't have such sharp canines.
Banning guns is almost like banning teeth. In the UK, guns are next to impossible to obtain, compared to the US. It does not mean the wolves are toothless. Instead of bullet proof vests, the police are kitted out with stab-proof vests.
I believe the high gun related murder rate in the US is not so much caused by the ubiquity of guns, rather the vast size of the underground economy where weapons are used as a means of securing business (robbery and dealing with the competition). The size of the US's underground economy, I believe, is directly proportional to the portion of the population without access to the regular economy for many reasons: lack of education; poverty; lack of opportunity; the allure of thug life; culture and tradition. The size of the underground economy will also be correlated to the number of wolves and the statistics on their predation.
Viewed in this way, countries like Switzerland and the UK, cannot serve as models for why gun control works or is unnecessary. There are completely different economies at work.
As to the point Ros brought up about guns not providing protection against drive-by shootings, I believe this is correct. But this is not a gun control problem. This is a crime problem. Drive-by shootings are a type of random attack even soldiers would be hard pressed to defend against. One can either avoid areas where drive-by's (Ros?) happen, or address the crime problem by eliminating the criminals and providing means of access to the legitimate economy.
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Feb 14, 2013 9:12:00 GMT -5
I must apologise for bringing this up on the tribute thread.
My opinion stands though FWIW. Less machine guns on the street may not STOP mass murders, but it MAY make them more difficult. Sure, the gangs will still have them, but 'normal' kids who have a bad day will not be able to simply open a cabinet and murder anyone in their way.
Gary
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Post by Ros on Feb 14, 2013 9:22:02 GMT -5
I believe the gun control issue is similar to a sheep rancher whose flock is being decimated by wolves. The problem is wolves like to eat sheep, or there aren't enough sheep dogs. It is not the problem that wolves and sheep would get along well together if only the wolves didn't have such sharp canines. The analogy works better if you also say that the rancher has a large hole in his fence that allows wolves easily into the sheep pen. The more guns there are in a population, the easier it is to obtain guns illegally. It also assumes that there is only a criminal underworld of wolves and that the sheep never hurt each other. Deaths or injuries by firearm aren't just inflicted by a criminal underworld, though. How many injuries or deaths occur accidentally? How many occur in abusive relationships? A sudden flash of temper? Someone who can't take anymore, for whatever reason? This I absolutely agree with. I imagine it gets harder and harder to do as the gap between rich and poor ever widens. It's very difficult to draw causation conclusions from most of the data available, but this seems to be quite a sensible article. factcheck.org/2012/12/gun-rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/P.S. Drive-bys doesn't need an apostrophe.  |
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Post by meguro on Feb 14, 2013 16:26:45 GMT -5
I must apologise for bringing this up on the tribute thread. My opinion stands though FWIW. Less machine guns on the street may not STOP mass murders, but it MAY make them more difficult. Sure, the gangs will still have them, but 'normal' kids who have a bad day will not be able to simply open a cabinet and murder anyone in their way. Gary I don't disagree. Normal kids, however, don't open up the gun cabinet and go on a murder spree. I think we all have probably experienced bad days and what we might call even murderous rage. But acting on it, that is way over on the extreme end of the distribution curve of normal. It is probably smack dab in the middle of the psycho distribution curve, between likes to hurt animals and Pol Pot. |
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Post by hokuto12 on Feb 15, 2013 1:14:50 GMT -5
I remember that Rubert Murdock tweeted when will the US get serious about gun control. A politian responded by saying when Fox starts putting pressure on the government.
In Sydney here there has been an increase in drive by shootings and the government are struggling to fix it. Not sure about other countries but we have the softest Judges that give the offenders basically a slap on the wrist.
They need to take away a massive amount of the finacial benefits that the crimes give them. Take away all there assets and money from whatever crime they have been committing.
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Post by powerof0ne on Feb 15, 2013 1:17:04 GMT -5
When I was 15 or 16, My Step Mom was coming home from closing the bar she worked at. At an intersection just a block or two from the duplex she lived in with my Dad at the time there was a car that had the right away...she motioned for it to go, it didn't..so she took the left, which positioned her in front of the car. The car started shooting while driving forward. My step mom ducked down while she floored the gas pedal. She wasn't shot once. Drive by shootings are very inaccurate to say the least. Most people that do them do not have much experience. The main way they're effective is in a cowardly way, to catch someone unarmed by surprise. Can we all be prepared all the time? Hell no, I don't care how "good" you are at spotting danger. You can avoid bad areas, you can choose to be armed so you can shoot back, and you can try to not put yourself in vulnerable positions. There is always that risk at some point you're going to be vulnerable for various reasons but I choose to follow these simple pointers. I will always be armed with a firearm every time I can be... With that being said, I like staying at home these days where I have plenty of weapons  I don't get robbed at home, no risk of being attacked, etc. LOL Osu! |
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Post by meguro on Feb 21, 2013 17:14:25 GMT -5
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Post by havamal on Feb 22, 2013 10:48:35 GMT -5
no one or laws can convince criminals to obey laws, be respectful, and not to "prey" upon the unexpected.
bad deeds will be done by evil people, always.
we can encourage all people to be safely skilled and well equipped to respond appropriately, to deter or to stop violence from criminals and from "no-knock" police team entries to the wrong homes, by equally allowing concealed carry weapons (CCW) permits and open-carry of semi-automatic rifles, which are not the "assault" rifles of the military that may fire in full-automatic rate.
for those of you open to facts and statistics, the neighborhoods that encourage such readiness have less violent crimes while the opposites true.
American police chiefs answer to politicians that decide on their jobs, benefits, and wages, but American sheriffs, that are more directly elected, more free to speak thier own minds, support the truth that armed citizens do help in preventing or minimizing violence, over-all.
karate or jujutsu is for when we're out of "bullets."
Osu
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Post by Ros on Apr 10, 2013 2:15:13 GMT -5
5 Mind Blowing Facts Nobody Told You About Guns... After every mass shooting, the gun debate splits into two camps: One side says it easily could have been avoided if these maniacs weren't allowed to have guns; the other says it easily could have been avoided if each innocent victim had only gone through their daily lives in cover formation, armed like the space marines entering the giant murder womb in Aliens.
And that's pretty much the entire gun control debate, as far as the mainstream media are willing to cover. And that is a shame, because it leaves out all of the most interesting parts. Trust us, the longer you look into this, the weirder it gets. For instance ...
www.cracked.com/article_20396_5-mind-blowing-facts-nobody-told-you-about-guns.html#ixzz2Q2gVCUnI |
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Post by meguro on Apr 10, 2013 5:52:54 GMT -5
I think read that or something similar before, Ros. I wasn't too surprised about the product placement in video games. Video games, movies, television, product placement is everywhere. The stats on declining gun violence is interesting. For all the clamor assault weapons are getting in the news, it seems that suicide by handgun is what should really be getting the attention. The fantasy role playing is interesting too, but not surprising. Just because we all love our knockdown karate, it doesn't mean the public should be concerned about a wave of shin kicking in the streets and churches. Before 9:00 AM and after 5:00 PM, life is all fantasy role playing and Barbie's Dream House isn't it? It's those one in a million who try and live the fantasy. . .
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Post by hokuto12 on Jun 28, 2013 18:18:45 GMT -5
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I don't get robbed at home, no risk of being attacked, etc. LOL 