monty
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Post by monty on Jan 14, 2014 16:25:58 GMT -5
When I get back to training I will be in a strange position, I graded to shodan when Gary was running the club independently. As we are now back under the Enshin banner I should be wearing my brown belt again. I know Gary would allow me to train in a plain GI and my black belt but I suppose I ought to dig out the old Enshin GI and put a brown belt back on (on that note, Gary have you got a spare brown belt I can have/buy? Ros stole mine )
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Jan 15, 2014 1:45:52 GMT -5
Whatever suits you best Monty. I'll honour any grades I've awarded. Once you are up to speed on the Enshin kata we'll make the necessary changes.
At this moment getting your knee right is more important.
Gary
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blacktiger
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Post by blacktiger on Jan 15, 2014 4:56:09 GMT -5
I totally respect all the views and opinions specified here.
So from what I can see is predominantly, It's upto the Branch Chief Instructor or the Kancho/Kaicho as to what the rules are set regards this topic.
For me I'm not political, IF someone has put the time in and taken the tests (unless its a GoKan Ryu or offshot/similar regardless at what level they begin at White Belt), I'm happy for Knockdown based KarateKa to stay at the same level Dan grade or Kyu Grade. Regards to other NON-Knockdown styles its keep black belt but grade to Shodan, All Kyu grades will begin again.
I think that Kata and Kihon can be learnt and adapted, its the Kumite part of Knockdown that is where I tend to have the stigma. If the person can hold their own with the other senior grades then that's fine, if not then we have to discuss where to begin from. I might let them keep their belt but no Dan Bars and have the Honourary grade of Shodan ho.
Can I say the most joyful grade I ever had was Brown Belt. I would have stayed at brown for years but When Sensei says I'm ready ..... years down the line I'm glad I don't have to formally grade again but my view is I would never ask a student to do what i couldn't do myself.
I was contemplating training at a local Shotokan Dojo, I attended the Dojo with my White belt on. he knew within a few minutes I knew what I was doing. So the Chief Instructor was going to honour my grade and would grade me to the next level ONCE I'd learnt all the syllabus to that particular point. I would have done it but my classes fall on the same days now as his. I would have been Sandan in Shotokan too.
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Post by Ros on Jan 15, 2014 6:34:04 GMT -5
For me I'm not political, IF someone has put the time in and taken the tests (unless its a GoKan Ryu or offshot/similar regardless at what level they begin at White Belt), I'm happy for Knockdown based KarateKa to stay at the same level Dan grade or Kyu Grade. Regards to other NON-Knockdown styles its keep black belt but grade to Shodan, All Kyu grades will begin again. I'm curious as to why a GKR karateka would not be treated in the same way as any other non-knockdown karateka? That does sound a bit political to me. I'm sure there are very bad instructors and students in all styles and types of karate and it seems a bit unfair to just single one name out. To lay my cards on the table, I trained with GKR and Wado Ryu before training with Gary and they honestly didn't seem that dissimilar to me; big classes, drilling up and down a hall, learning kata by rote and never hitting anything.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Jan 15, 2014 9:48:06 GMT -5
Why overthink this? Does it matter, I mean really?
If someone comes from another club with the right attitude they'll make progress. With the wrong attitude they won't, regardless of grade. It really is that simple.
Gary
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blacktiger
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Post by blacktiger on Jan 15, 2014 9:48:56 GMT -5
For me I'm not political, IF someone has put the time in and taken the tests (unless its a GoKan Ryu or offshot/similar regardless at what level they begin at White Belt), I'm happy for Knockdown based KarateKa to stay at the same level Dan grade or Kyu Grade. Regards to other NON-Knockdown styles its keep black belt but grade to Shodan, All Kyu grades will begin again. I'm curious as to why a GKR karateka would not be treated in the same way as any other non-knockdown karateka? That does sound a bit political to me. I'm sure there are very bad instructors and students in all styles and types of karate and it seems a bit unfair to just single one name out. To lay my cards on the table, I trained with GKR and Wado Ryu before training with Gary and they honestly didn't seem that dissimilar to me; big classes, drilling up and down a hall, learning kata by rote and never hitting anything. Ros, GKR, need I say any more, Its a product not an art. 6th Kyu's given Black and White Belts and called Sensei. The quality I have seen in GKR is a far cry from standard run-of-the-mill styles like Wado Ryu and Shotokan and Goju Ryu. I could add many many Threads on other forums where they do nothing but condem GKR, surely they all can't be wrong. I haven't just done Ashihara Karate myself (I'm not going to reel off the styles I've done) so I know what the different styles are about. I've attended a GKR offshot near me and the quality was appauling. The Sensei couldn't perform the Kata properly himself let alone teach it to his students (I assisted by teaching a bunkai to Pinan Nidan/Heian Shodan to him and his students). YouTube totally illustrates what the difference in quality between a specific grade doing the same Kata etc. They practice NON-CONTACT Kumite and door knocking. I've not met a KarateKa yet who hasn't trained with GKR that gives them any praise. Wado Ryu for some that I talk with concider it as the weaker form of Karate, I just see it as an OK style that I spent 4 years practicing it. With regards to what parts of Wado Ryu I use now, I can honestly say none of it. My Sensei was direct lineage from Sakugami Sensei and we did hit each other in that Dojo. It depends on the school. Wado in the North East also runs many of the Familty martial arts and "Kickboxing Schools" which is Wado without the kata. This then is the only "Political" view I have but I never said I was perfect either.
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Post by Ros on Jan 15, 2014 11:11:23 GMT -5
I'm curious as to why a GKR karateka would not be treated in the same way as any other non-knockdown karateka? That does sound a bit political to me. I'm sure there are very bad instructors and students in all styles and types of karate and it seems a bit unfair to just single one name out. To lay my cards on the table, I trained with GKR and Wado Ryu before training with Gary and they honestly didn't seem that dissimilar to me; big classes, drilling up and down a hall, learning kata by rote and never hitting anything. Ros, GKR, need I say any more, Its a product not an art. 6th Kyu's given Black and White Belts and called Sensei. The quality I have seen in GKR is a far cry from standard run-of-the-mill styles like Wado Ryu and Shotokan and Goju Ryu. I could add many many Threads on other forums where they do nothing but condem GKR, surely they all can't be wrong. I haven't just done Ashihara Karate myself (I'm not going to reel off the styles I've done) so I know what the different styles are about. I've attended a GKR offshot near me and the quality was appauling. The Sensei couldn't perform the Kata properly himself let alone teach it to his students (I assisted by teaching a bunkai to Pinan Nidan/Heian Shodan to him and his students). YouTube totally illustrates what the difference in quality between a specific grade doing the same Kata etc. They practice NON-CONTACT Kumite and door knocking. I've not met a KarateKa yet who hasn't trained with GKR that gives them any praise. Wado Ryu for some that I talk with concider it as the weaker form of Karate, I just see it as an OK style that I spent 4 years practicing it. With regards to what parts of Wado Ryu I use now, I can honestly say none of it. My Sensei was direct lineage from Sakugami Sensei and we did hit each other in that Dojo. It depends on the school. Wado in the North East also runs many of the Familty martial arts and "Kickboxing Schools" which is Wado without the kata. This then is the only "Political" view I have but I never said I was perfect either. Don't get me wrong, I'm really not giving GKR any praise, just wondering why you would specifically single them out, when every style is capable of having crap instructors and students. GKR might advertise itself as doing non-contact kumite, but that really isn't true and I'm aware of several kumite-related injuries. There were some really technically great students at the classes I attended; really sharp and fast who I'm sure would have performed well in any point sparring.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Jan 15, 2014 14:21:07 GMT -5
I find some of your posts a bit confusing Ken. I'm not sure here if you're asking about accepting grades like for like or just generally unhappy with other clubs. For the first a simple trial period usually tells you all you need to know. For the second it's best to keep out of the politics and style bashing. Keep yourself fit and run a good club without worrying about others. Gary
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blacktiger
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Post by blacktiger on Jan 16, 2014 4:35:18 GMT -5
I find some of your posts a bit confusing Ken. I'm not sure here if you're asking about accepting grades like for like or just generally unhappy with other clubs. For the first a simple trial period usually tells you all you need to know. For the second it's best to keep out of the politics and style bashing. Keep yourself fit and run a good club without worrying about others. Gary Gary I have no qualms with any style except GKR, sorry I'm not perfect. I have no issues with any other club as that's their issues regards what's accepted and what's not on Grades etc. Just wondering what the opinion is across the board. I'm happy to accept grades at face value in Knockdown at my school I got no Ego on "OH you can't where that here" stuff because they're from a different Kyokushin Organisation. If they are training with me then they are part of the school, not just a visitor (even if they're only training with me for a few sessions). Finally I'm happily building a good strong club with some good blackbelts and have students travelling as far as 20+ miles to train with me. I'm working on my personal fitness after my knee surgery and gettting much better. Thanks everyone for your opinions and point of view
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Jan 16, 2014 5:13:15 GMT -5
Nobody's perfect, but as your good book says "Let him without sin cast the first stone".
When I run a fantastic club teeming with happy, injury free and enthusiastic members I might turn my critical eye to others.
But I rather suspect I've got enough work here to last me for a while.
Gary
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