shugyo
Member
Proof Is On The Floor!!
Posts: 76
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Post by shugyo on May 26, 2014 17:28:30 GMT -5
You're a black belt!! You're trained, you've been graded, and now, you've been put to pasture, so to speak. If you become inactive, for whatever the reason(s) may or may not be...Are you still a black belt?? If this isn't the appropriate place to put this topic in, please forgive me, and please move it to it's appropriate place.
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on May 27, 2014 0:45:01 GMT -5
I think so.
I see black belt as similar to completing an apprenticeship. You may be 'out of trade' later in life and need some 'refresher training' before you get back into it, but lose it? No.
Gary
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Post by senshido on May 27, 2014 4:24:49 GMT -5
I think it's a tough question... with a couple of possible answers 1. Am I a practising black belt? No 2. Did I earn a black belt? yes 3. Am I still a black belt? don't know I am no help at all on this!!
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Post by MMX on May 27, 2014 11:30:11 GMT -5
I would agree with Gary and Senshido. IT also comes down to IT Depends.
I think some folks go in and get their Black belt and think that is the end. They just stop. If they are that person that I would say no.
Now if they got their Black belt and kept training but then life,family,injury gets in the way then probably not. They will more than likely come back,and at that point it won't take long to get the edge back.
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curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
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Post by curlbroscience on May 27, 2014 13:33:09 GMT -5
It would say that the answer is with the person. Some people have ended their training after the accomplishment because for them they achieved the goal. For others, the training will ebb and flow with respect to their families and obligations. In both instances you never stop being, it's within the heart and mind that you stop putting it on.
In my experience, life balance is a lesson in Karate learned after Shodan oustide of the dojo. Quite often as a kyu grade we get wrapped up in the race to the perceived finish line. Life is to be lived and enjoyed in balance.
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GJEC
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LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on May 27, 2014 13:46:08 GMT -5
There's also the instructors side. I'm not malicious but I get the right hump when someone uses the club to get a black belt then quits immediately afterwards.
It leaves a bad taste. I'd wonder if I treated them unfairly or if the atmosphere had put them off etc. So if a black belt just 'reappeared' I'd be asking why they'd stopped. If the answer was arrogant I'd wonder if I wanted them back.
Gary
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Post by meguro on May 28, 2014 2:38:00 GMT -5
We are the sum of our experiences, aren't we? I used to be a grade schooler, high schooler, etc. I used to be crap at. . . But now. . .live in the now.
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evergrey
Member
Get over yourself, mate.
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Post by evergrey on May 28, 2014 2:41:31 GMT -5
Pretty sure no one would have suggested taking away Sosai's rank because he could not longer kick above the level of his knee. Heh! Age and disability happen... You can't take away the work someone did, though, and the rank they earned. I mean, I guess if you are their instructor or the head of the org you could technically, but you cannot take away what they learned.
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shugyo
Member
Proof Is On The Floor!!
Posts: 76
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Post by shugyo on Jun 1, 2014 7:11:36 GMT -5
I've looked...and I can't find it anywhere! I've looked at each of the corners...nothing! I've looked at the each hanko stamp...nothing! I've looked at the watermarks...nothing! I've looked at the signatures...nothing! I've looked at the text...nothing! I've looked E-V-E-R-Y-W-H-E-R-E...nothing! Maybe someone can help me locate it, because if it's there, I want to know. I'm sure, if it's there, surely it's not hidden, or somehow cleverly placed somewhere. What is it that I've looked for, but can't find?
The Expiration Date!!
Not one of my Dan certificates seem to have one!!
So, if there's no expiration date on any of my Dan certificates, then, by my understanding, no matter if I'm inactive or not; I'm still a black belt!!
Why can't I still be a black belt when I'm inactive? Where is it written that whenever one becomes inactive, that they're no longer a black belt??
If I'm inactive, I can surely agree that I'm no longer a Martial Artist. But, no longer a black belt!?! This I can't subscribe too. This October will be my 50th year anniversary in Shindokan...I'm still very active...I'll be 57 years old...I'm the current Kaicho of the SKKA...my dojo's student body is a healthy tad over 300; all active...I teach mostly every class...BUT...one day I will be put out to pasture, but not in entirety, however, one day, I MIGHT be just be!!
But, when that day finally ushers in, imho, I'll still be a black belt!!
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Post by senshido on Jun 1, 2014 7:27:38 GMT -5
I get what you are saying, and I kind of agree, I'm just genuinely not sure.
playing devils advocate here.... if I am a school teacher, i passed all my exams, got my certificate from university, teach for 30 years then retire... am I still a teacher or am I an ex-teacher?
as I said, it's a difficult question
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shugyo
Member
Proof Is On The Floor!!
Posts: 76
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Post by shugyo on Jun 1, 2014 7:47:26 GMT -5
Possibly it's just me, but to me, your school teacher analysis is akin to being a Martial Artist, and in that, if I'm inactive, then I'm no longer a Martial Artist...I'm a little thick headed, at times! In your school teacher analysis, I'd say that when said school teacher retires, they'll no longer be a teacher, but they'll still be a PhD or Bachelor or Master of Education and/or the like. Again, I'm thick headed in certain things.
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Post by senshido on Jun 2, 2014 5:06:29 GMT -5
No, I see your point... I'm still trying to work it all out in my head
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Post by meguro on Jun 3, 2014 3:00:14 GMT -5
Why stop at being a black belt? Be better than a black belt. There is no denying the limitations placed on us by mortality, but stepping away from the physical aspect of karate gives you a good opportunity to assimilate all that you have learned and experienced and come up with something better, or at least different. Don't be defined by someone else's legacy.
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Jun 3, 2014 3:06:49 GMT -5
Very true
I loved my time as a competitor and enjoyed the challenge of perfecting skills. But if we view that as an apprenticeship you then have to create masterpieces or simply make things that function well.
Training others to be far better than I ever was has given me a feeling of completing the circle and the pleasure of paying it forwards.
Can I still do everything as well as in my 20's? Of course not.
Does coaching mean I'm more of a craftsman? I like to think so.
Gary
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Post by senshido on Jun 5, 2014 7:40:09 GMT -5
I think I'm possibly thinking of this in the wrong way... the way I am thinking is from the perspective of the organisation, If I give someone a black belt and they stop training they are no longer one of my black belts. Whereas I suppose from the point of view of the person, they are still a black belt, just not one of MY black belts. Here is another scenario... A black belt stops training... doubles their weight, can hardly move off the couch, they have a certificate, but they can no longer DO it? ... are they still a black belt? My jury is still out on this one!! the more I think about it the more I don't know the answer!!
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