GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 0:44:33 GMT -5
Post by GJEC on Apr 28, 2011 0:44:33 GMT -5
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 4:42:35 GMT -5
Post by Ros on Apr 28, 2011 4:42:35 GMT -5
Humourous too! I can think of a few people I know who ought to read this article.
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wullie
Member
I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, there's no way you can prove anything!
Posts: 725
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 7:23:19 GMT -5
Post by wullie on Apr 28, 2011 7:23:19 GMT -5
Cheers for posting that Gary, it touches on a few things we've said before about street fighting.
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fatjoe
Member
Just for Kicks
Posts: 98
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 8:22:53 GMT -5
Post by fatjoe on Apr 28, 2011 8:22:53 GMT -5
I enjoyed that article Gary!! Most I agree with, some misses the point but suggestive opinions often do that. Thank you for sharing.
Osu!
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 10:20:04 GMT -5
Post by powerof0ne on Apr 28, 2011 10:20:04 GMT -5
I actually agree with everything in the article, or, just about. I think realistic drills can have some benefit. Drilling from your actual fighting stance, not some deep zenkutsu dachi, kokutsu, sheiko, etc. dachi.
The ground fighting statistic started making me laugh years ago the more I actually thought about how often I've been in a fight that ended up on the ground...and that time was one time, only because I chose to take it there LOL. Gotta love made up statistics!
What I find interesting is that a systema web site made this when there is some questionable systema videos and material out there, IMHO. Some of the systema stuff I have seen resembles Aikido quite a bit, too...strange when you consider that this article more or less says joint locks are rubbish in a real fight (which I more or less agree with).
Osu!
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 11:14:16 GMT -5
Post by MMX on Apr 28, 2011 11:14:16 GMT -5
Most of it is really common sense. Some people are just too blind to realize that or have been conned by those that are blinded by their previous training.
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curlbroscience
Member
Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
Posts: 1,517
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 11:32:53 GMT -5
Post by curlbroscience on Apr 28, 2011 11:32:53 GMT -5
I have been reading up on some boxing theory and one in particular regarding training power on the heavy bag. One trainer said that he has their fighters focus on technique rather than power a majority of the time. His reasoning is that heavy hitters are born and technique is the only way to increase power. Not to say that he neglects power rounds on the heavy bag as those are valuable assets as well.
Makes sort of sense along the lines of this article to work on proper body mechanics.
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 12:05:54 GMT -5
Post by meguro on Apr 28, 2011 12:05:54 GMT -5
I'm on the fence about joint locks and chokes but leaning towards them more than away. I've applied them and had them applied to me in judo randori and Kudo. Not real fights by any stretch, but nobody was "compliant." It's not like say Aikido's "give me your hand and I'll do this." It's more like someone surrendered their back or had their arm extended for a brief second, and the other guy takes the opportunity. You might be surprised at how compliant someone gets after a few head butts.
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Myths
Apr 28, 2011 12:58:02 GMT -5
Post by MMX on Apr 28, 2011 12:58:02 GMT -5
The punching I find gets better if I just work on the technique and then the speed. I then notice more power. If I try just power I get slower and tired quick.
As far as the joint locks and holds. I agree to an extent Meguro.
If the person holding on is very experienced it will be hard to escape. If they are not though and the opponent is very strong you will be in trouble.
That is my experience from rolling with some guys that do MMA here locally..
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wullie
Member
I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, there's no way you can prove anything!
Posts: 725
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Myths
Apr 29, 2011 3:48:32 GMT -5
Post by wullie on Apr 29, 2011 3:48:32 GMT -5
I've used joint locks to good effect when removing people form pubs, that being said i'd usualy 'subdued' them before hand I do think you have to condition your hands and wrist for striking in a self protection situation, because if you're only used to punching while wearing gloves and/or wraps you'll be in for a bit of a shock.
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fatjoe
Member
Just for Kicks
Posts: 98
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Myths
Apr 29, 2011 9:24:24 GMT -5
Post by fatjoe on Apr 29, 2011 9:24:24 GMT -5
I have found joint locks are effective in close encounters!!
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Myths
Apr 29, 2011 10:28:04 GMT -5
Post by powerof0ne on Apr 29, 2011 10:28:04 GMT -5
Due to Ueshiba O'sensei I've always imagined aikidoka being "small" in stature and effectively using kote gaeishi or whatever kyo (5 ways to bend wrist) to restrain and have their way with somebody. In my experience with joint locks I have only once or twice had somebody much smaller than me effectively use them on me when I wasn't being compliant. I don't consider a kimura, key lock, "americana", hammer lock, etc. a joint lock but a submission hold. I do feel that submissions work fairly well if you know how to apply them. With that being said one time did I really make aikido really work for me on somebody non compliant..I wish it was video taped because it looked like it was on a video or from what I remember. Really restrained the guy and made him spin around in circles on how I moved him around. However, every other time I tried I found the other person fairly easily being able to get his arms out of the way by simply flailing them around. So yes, in my own experience joint locks can work but most of the time they do not. Now, if you want to talk about locks on the small digits like the fingers or toes I won't argue those work . I do know some grapplers that specialize in "toe holds" but they're not allowed in most MMA competition (but they used to be). Osu!
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Myths
Apr 29, 2011 11:18:08 GMT -5
Post by meguro on Apr 29, 2011 11:18:08 GMT -5
Now, if you want to talk about locks on the small digits like the fingers or toes I won't argue those work . I do know some grapplers that specialize in "toe holds" but they're not allowed in most MMA competition (but they used to be). Osu! Reminds me to keep my Timberlands on. ;D
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Myths
May 3, 2011 9:36:49 GMT -5
Post by powerof0ne on May 3, 2011 9:36:49 GMT -5
Just went over a finger lock/escape in the class I taught last night . One of my simple and favorite sure way escapes. No matter how strong you are, how strong your grip is, as long as you have a pinkey finger you're vulnerable. The pinkey finger has hardly any strength. Put a gable grip on me and I'll pull your pinkey back and apply a lock to it . It's not pretty nor would it look cool in a Seagal movie but it works. Get with the biggest, strongest person you know and have them bear hug you or whatever...pry their pinkey back. Osu!
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Myths
May 4, 2011 0:59:44 GMT -5
Post by ironcastknight on May 4, 2011 0:59:44 GMT -5
Number six smells like double bullshit to me, mainly on account of coming across like it was written by someone who has no idea how grappling works. Do they think someone is just going to sit there in mount patiently waiting for their opponent to tap out to a loosely held collar choke for long enough that his friends are going to stop making jokes about riding cowgirl and when the wedding is going to be and start kicking them in the head? F*** no! They will crank that shit so hard that five seconds later their opponent will be passed out and shitting their pants while they're getting back up to face the next opponent or, if they're smart, running the hell away.
Furthermore, suppose I'm choking a B**** like Rick James and their buddy decides it's boot time. Oh no! What will I do? Well, let me get all zen for a second: In order to boot my head, first you must boot the head of your friend. Or, in plain speech, I'm keeping the collar choke but rolling over, putting the rapidly cooling corpse of their buddy between me and their feet.
Plus, that's not even taking throws into account. How do fights end up on the ground when they do? Someone falls down. Now, what if there were some kind of martial art focused entirely around making people fall into the ground so hard they need thick specialized mats and months of dedicated falling training to survive the process? Oh wait, there is! It's called Judo, and if the hard fall onto concrete doesn't finish off that opponent, then whatever lock or choke that's applied afterwards certainly will in the 5~10 seconds it takes to position for and do.
As for weapons, sure, if someone pulls a knife or gun you're suddenly in deep shit, but fat F***ing chance of Russian Aikido being any better for that than Judo or BJJ. Best solution is Ohshitsonrunjitsu, obviously enough.
Rest of it is fine, though also kinda stupid sometimes. Also needed a myth about how the mean streets are not, in fact, paved with broken glass, AIDS needles, and lava.
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