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Post by kev1969 on May 26, 2011 9:15:41 GMT -5
Was just looking through the alll knowing oricle of WIKIPEDIA, whan i came across the meaning of Shihan. According to Wikipedia, a Shihan is, "Shihan (Žt”Í ?) is a Japanese term, often used in Japanese martial arts as an honorific title for instructors. The term is frequently used interchangeably with the English term "master."
Various martial arts organizations have different requirements for the usage of the title. It is sometimes associated with certain rights, such as the right to give out black belt (dan) ranks in the name of the organization. However, the title is generally distinct from the black belt ranking system (dan'i). Shihan is an "instructor" of martial arts, and teaches the classes under the guidance of a Sensei or "senior instructor." A Sensei may employ multiple shihans if the dojo has large membership. The title Shihan is not used interchangeably with Sensei since the title Sensei is reserved for the highest ranking, senior instructor." It does finish of at end of the article to say that Kyokushin uses itfor their branch or organisational instructor"
Wonder how many eyes would get raised if I called my brown belt Shihan or on the other hand tried telling a Shihan they was under a sensei's instruction.
Just found this interesting. The Japanese language is a complex language,
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Post by powerof0ne on May 26, 2011 10:26:53 GMT -5
In all my years of Japanese martial arts I have never seen a "sensei" be higher up then a shihan is in the same style or org. Thing about wikipedia is that anybody can create a wikipedia article and perhaps in "grammatically correct" Japanese this all applies but not in Japanese martial arts. Osu!
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on May 26, 2011 11:38:23 GMT -5
I remember Brian Fitkin being promoted to Shihan and not telling anyone as he prefered to be called sensei.
One of the best pearls of wisdom he gave me was "you pick your own sensei"
In many large groups everyone of a certain rank has a certain title. I never bother with them. For people I regard as my instructors/mentors (fewer and fewer these days) I use their title when I talk to them, other to that I just call people by their given name. I expect no more from others.
Gary
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Post by powerof0ne on May 26, 2011 11:48:39 GMT -5
I remember Brian Fitkin being promoted to Shihan and not telling anyone as he prefered to be called sensei. One of the best pearls of wisdom he gave me was "you pick your own sensei" In many large groups everyone of a certain rank has a certain title. I never bother with them. For people I regard as my instructors/mentors (fewer and fewer these days) I use their title when I talk to them, other to that I just call people by their given name. I expect no more from others. Gary I've always felt the same, myself. I still find it odd over the years meeting instructors that insist I call them by their MA title . Also sold me on not even bothering to check on a dojo when I called and the instructor insisted I call him "Master Bill" or whatever his name was. Osu!
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Post by senshido on May 27, 2011 4:18:27 GMT -5
Bernard Creton, didnt use the Shihan title until he got his 6th dan, we were still calling him Sensei when he was a 5th dan
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Post by senshido on May 27, 2011 4:22:20 GMT -5
Was just looking through the alll knowing oricle of WIKIPEDIA, whan i came across the meaning of Shihan. According to Wikipedia, a Shihan is, "Shihan (Žt”Í ?) is a Japanese term, often used in Japanese martial arts as an honorific title for instructors. The term is frequently used interchangeably with the English term "master." Various martial arts organizations have different requirements for the usage of the title. It is sometimes associated with certain rights, such as the right to give out black belt (dan) ranks in the name of the organization. However, the title is generally distinct from the black belt ranking system (dan'i). Shihan is an "instructor" of martial arts, and teaches the classes under the guidance of a Sensei or "senior instructor." A Sensei may employ multiple shihans if the dojo has large membership. The title Shihan is not used interchangeably with Sensei since the title Sensei is reserved for the highest ranking, senior instructor." It does finish of at end of the article to say that Kyokushin uses itfor their branch or organisational instructor" Wonder how many eyes would get raised if I called my brown belt Shihan or on the other hand tried telling a Shihan they was under a sensei's instruction. Just found this interesting. The Japanese language is a complex language, The whole thing (not the article, the title thing) seems mixed up depending on where you go, or what style you go to... I was taught (rightly or wrongly) that Sensei means teacher, Shihan means Master and hanshi means Honorable Master, 3rd & 4th dan = Sensei, 5th, 6th, 7th dan = Shihan and 8th dan = Hanshi. Does this fit in with everyone else's ideas?
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Post by meguro on May 27, 2011 11:06:54 GMT -5
Shihan is an "instructor" of martial arts, and teaches the classes under the guidance of a Sensei or "senior instructor." A Sensei may employ multiple shihans if the dojo has large membership. The title Shihan is not used interchangeably with Sensei since the title Sensei is reserved for the highest ranking, senior instructor." It does finish of at end of the article to say that Kyokushin uses itfor their branch or organisational instructor" Wonder how many eyes would get raised if I called my brown belt Shihan or on the other hand tried telling a Shihan they was under a sensei's instruction. Yikes! The moral of the story is, "don't trust everything you read on the interwebz."
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hangtime
Member
Adapt. Evolve. Thrive.
Posts: 202
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Post by hangtime on May 27, 2011 12:05:59 GMT -5
LOL Meguro, exhalted.
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evergrey
Member
Get over yourself, mate.
Posts: 854
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Post by evergrey on May 27, 2011 15:14:18 GMT -5
At my dojo, our 5th dan goes by the "Sensei" title, and our 7th dan goes by the "Shihan" title.
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Post by powerof0ne on May 28, 2011 12:52:04 GMT -5
To me all shihan ever meant was "an instructor of instructors". It didn't really mean "master" to me but maybe I've been wrong?
With that being said being an instructor of instructors is nothing to scoff at. I'm not a big fan of calling somebody "master" anything unless it's to poke fun at what they do when they're alone... Osu!
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Post by kev1969 on May 30, 2011 3:28:14 GMT -5
I too have never heard of Sensei being higher than Shihan. I do think tho that sometime too much emphasis is put on a title, I myself being a sensei, meaning teacher feel i am still lerning and still have a great deal to learn and will in all honesty never stop learning new things from students and other instructors. although I say earlier to much is put n a title, and some people act as tho their title makes them and gives them right to be respected, when in fact its how you act and hold yourself that gives you the right to use that title. not the other way round. OSU
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evergrey
Member
Get over yourself, mate.
Posts: 854
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Post by evergrey on May 30, 2011 16:55:27 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of calling somebody "master" anything unless it's to poke fun at what they do when they're alone... Osu! You mean, when they're having a lot of fun? Haha! OSU!
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Post by gotapex on Jun 1, 2011 5:27:59 GMT -5
The whole thing (not the article, the title thing) seems mixed up depending on where you go, or what style you go to... I was taught (rightly or wrongly) that Sensei means teacher, Shihan means Master and hanshi means Honorable Master, 3rd & 4th dan = Sensei, 5th, 6th, 7th dan = Shihan and 8th dan = Hanshi. Does this fit in with everyone else's ideas? I remember back when I was taking Shotokan (JKA/AAKF). The head guy was a 9th degree named Hidetaka Nishiyama. He refused the title of master (and refused the 10th degree) because he said once you've "mastered" something, you have nothing left to learn. 1st and 2nd dan was "sempai" and 3rd on up was "sensei".
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Post by seattle on Jun 2, 2011 16:40:10 GMT -5
I remember Brian Fitkin being promoted to Shihan and not telling anyone as he prefered to be called sensei. One of the best pearls of wisdom he gave me was "you pick your own sensei" In many large groups everyone of a certain rank has a certain title. I never bother with them. For people I regard as my instructors/mentors (fewer and fewer these days) I use their title when I talk to them, other to that I just call people by their given name. I expect no more from others. Gary I've always felt the same, myself. I still find it odd over the years meeting instructors that insist I call them by their MA title . Also sold me on not even bothering to check on a dojo when I called and the instructor insisted I call him "Master Bill" or whatever his name was. Osu! In my class, I try to keep my students from just calling me Sensei. I try to make them use my name (first or last, I don't care) along with the title. I see too often that peoples titles become there name to the students. Outside the dojo, I ask them to call me by name. (especially hard for my younger Japanese students)
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Post by yoshukai on Jun 2, 2011 16:55:04 GMT -5
One of my friends has a dojo about an hour from where I live. Outside of class, all of his students address him as "Sensei". It always makes me feel uncomfortable when going out in public with them.
Osu!
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