residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Mar 14, 2012 18:40:31 GMT -5
Hello!
I've been asked to do some goshin-jitsu drills at my kyokushin dojo. I'm supposed to do some throws and somewhat survive grappling on the ground.
I'm having a hard time learning the moves, normally get my butt kicked when its self-defense / grappling time. So I thought about crosstraining karate with judo or bjj (later less likely 'cause its expensive). When would be the best time to try this out, later at higher grade or about now? (I'm a kyokushin 7th kyu at the moment).
Peace!
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Post by powerof0ne on Mar 14, 2012 20:19:29 GMT -5
I think arts like Judo or BJJ are fine as long as it doesn't mean you're giving up karate time. I say this because I think it pays off to develop a base of Shodan in one art before really going into other arts...however it's all a matter of opinion and your goals. With that being said I know Quinn Shihan, aka Cameron Quinn, trains in BJJ and MMA from time to time. I have a weird view on BJJ I'm not yet ready to share but I will not argue its effective nor would the fact that I've probably spent a solid 8 years training in it counting all the times I took off since I started it. At this point in mu life I'm not really into getting back into it again but if I was I'd probably get back into Gracie Barra or Carlson Gracie..the two first orgs I trained under too. Osu!
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Post by senshido on Mar 15, 2012 8:23:06 GMT -5
we were quite lucky when I was learning (still learning) as my karate Instructor was also very adept at Judo Like p01 says, as long as it doest eat into kyokushin time
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residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Mar 15, 2012 20:11:43 GMT -5
Osu! Kyokushin time is about 3 hours on Mondays-Wednesday-Fridays every week. I was thinking of filling the gaps on Tuesdays-Thursdays. If I understood correctly your suggestion is to focus on main art and wait till I get shodan level base My current options are: 1) Sign up at near gym for some weights/cardio complementary stuff. 2) Sign up at a judo dojo. 3) Ask help/advice from a recent dojo member who's a green belt in judo. 4) Attend recently opened IFK dojo that trains on my 'kyoushin free' days. Osu!
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Post by meguro on Mar 18, 2012 13:59:50 GMT -5
Training 5 days a week can be grueling, particularly if you are thinking of combining Kyokushin and Judo. Take advantage of rest days, it will prevent burn-out and prolong your training life. week 1: Mon (KK), Wed (J), Fri (KK) week 2: Mon (J), Wed (KK), Fri (J)
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residentrenzo
Member
The only way to overcome fear is through it, not around it.
Posts: 83
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Post by residentrenzo on Mar 20, 2012 21:01:58 GMT -5
Osu! Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it! Meguro, the thing is I have KK here on a strict Mon-Wed-Fri schedule. I can't change that. Anything complementary has to happen on rest days (Tuesdays & Thursdays). My sensei said exactly the same thing you did, training 5 days in a row is too much at this point. Osu!
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Post by havamal on Mar 29, 2012 10:29:11 GMT -5
if you like the truth of karate then you will cross train in wrestling, judo, jiujitsu/jiujutsu, or MMA immidiately and as often as you can while keeping in balance your life, allowing proper space to all that's essential and getting rid of clutter. Then, maybe once a month, goto a rife, shotgun, or pistol range and improve on safely handling of firearms.
Karate is when for you're out of 'bullets' -- with "empy hand" -- so that we may prevent violence or save lives as effectivley as we can in personal combat, unarmed or armed, while keeping a calm, open, and adaptable mind..."mind like water."
Ideal is to cross-train, not to neglect your karate-do base. The arena of martial sports (such as kickboxing, muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, Enshin, Kyokushin, etc.) allows us a venue for self-improvement, that polishes the never-quitting-mind, if you have the time and coaching to prepare to win in a given game. The sporting-side is not the end, but an element in the process that facilitates the way.
if you also wish to develope innate wisdom to your physical prowness then committ also to cross-training in meditation (zazen, shikantaza, samadhi), even if for only 20 min a day.
If you can't fight, in any or all situations -- not just while standing up within artificial rules--, then you're not a karate-ka. Osu
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Mar 29, 2012 11:00:04 GMT -5
My advice differs.
I don't advise doing everything, but finding something you like and giving it your best efforts. You might not end up a warrior, but you'll gain a hell of a lot and enjoy the journey. You'll also spend more nights at home, not sweating and grunting with people you hardly know.
Gary
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Post by MMX on Mar 29, 2012 11:03:50 GMT -5
Some cross training is good but I also have to agree with Gary.
More is not better. Better is better.
“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.”
Bruce Lee
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Post by powerof0ne on Mar 29, 2012 16:07:57 GMT -5
The only time I ended up on the ground in a "real" fight that wasn't competition or in the dojo was when I took the person down to the ground. I have never been thrown or taken down, hoping I didn't just jinx myself I've defused situations primarily with striking and clinching. Osu!
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Post by meguro on Mar 29, 2012 17:00:53 GMT -5
Don't think you need to be mixing it up, much less going to the ground if you're packing the XD, Po1.
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Post by havamal on Mar 30, 2012 9:22:16 GMT -5
The only time I ended up on the ground in a "real" fight that wasn't competition or in the dojo was when I took the person down to the ground. I have never been thrown or taken down, hoping I didn't just jinx myself I've defused situations primarily with striking and clinching. Osu! they're times when striking is not the best choice, but a judo/jiujutsu control move offers lesser harm, in pain-compliance hold. And there're tackles, falls & takedowns to consider, in real life. I also have dubious bias on ground-fighting, since strikes and "clinches" are my skillsets: it's still a good cross-training workout. I like karate, but I like karate and judo-type mix even better. to each his own. For many pre-20th Century Okinawan karate-ka, karate already incorporated judo-stuff. Just like not many can handle knockdown-karate, not many can handle grappleing: these are not for everyone. With a pistol, you can be disarmed...or have left it at home while you're out. This is, after all, a karate-forum, like a frog in his comfortable well, many forum members are understandablely attached to karate only.
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Post by havamal on Mar 30, 2012 9:47:23 GMT -5
My advice differs. I don't advise doing everything, but finding something you like and giving it your best efforts. You might not end up a warrior, but you'll gain a hell of a lot and enjoy the journey. You'll also spend more nights at home, not sweating and grunting with people you hardly know. Gary Depends on what "everything" is. old karate, before Judo, in OKinawa had punching, kicking, & seizing. new/Japanese karate has punching and kicking, but judo now has seizing. these are, of course, just generalities. I like karate-do and MMA, each side improves the other side, but that's just me.
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Mar 30, 2012 10:13:34 GMT -5
I know we've discussed this before, but this topic always reminds me of:
"If you will take the trouble to perfect one method of attack, you will be far more formidable than if you only become fairly good at all the methods you will be shown"
That was from the SOE instruction manual and their skills were tested in the most hostile environments imaginable.
So the way I see it is simple. We learn a range of skills and the individual must - through trial and error - find those at which they are most effective then train them until they are reliable under pressure.
That means repetition and inevitably that can be boring, but the sensible ones understand that skills must be trained until they become instinctive.
I often wonder if people who cross train are actually 'filling in the gaps' or simply seeking more variety. Not saying that's wrong, just that variety and effectiveness are not always found simultaneously.
Gary
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Post by havamal on Mar 30, 2012 12:42:36 GMT -5
I know we've discussed this before, but this topic always reminds me of: "If you will take the trouble to perfect one method of attack, you will be far more formidable than if you only become fairly good at all the methods you will be shown"That was from the SOE instruction manual and their skills were tested in the most hostile environments imaginable. So the way I see it is simple. We learn a range of skills and the individual must - through trial and error - find those at which they are most effective then train them until they are reliable under pressure. That means repetition and inevitably that can be boring, but the sensible ones understand that skills must be trained until they become instinctive. I often wonder if people who cross train are actually 'filling in the gaps' or simply seeking more variety. Not saying that's wrong, just that variety and effectiveness are not always found simultaneously. Gary Handful of effective techniques ought to be yours for real fighing (not just for MMA, Sabaki/Enshin, or Kyokushin games), but also, I am favor adding versatility, to adapt to than gettiing closed-minded about a narrow bandwidth of waza. I'm still working the lead leg heel side kick 10,000 times. Am enjoying striking my garage bananna bag, from Title Sports, but I still want to get moving on installing punching and a kicking makiwara posts.
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