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Post by MMX on Feb 11, 2015 14:40:42 GMT -5
Good article here. I think they have some good points and I find especially Japanese Traditional Karate has a one strike mentality that is not suited for the Ring. fightland.vice.com/blog/glory-19-why-karate-doesnt-work-in-the-ringIt does make note that Kyokushin and its offshoots are a different breed and quite compatible with kickboxing.
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Post by senshido on Feb 12, 2015 4:22:59 GMT -5
I will need to check it out at home later... my work computer wont let me look at it as the word "vice" is in the link!!
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GJEC
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LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
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Post by GJEC on Feb 12, 2015 5:53:27 GMT -5
Fit, skillful and aggressive people win fights, not 'styles' per se.
There are only two styles. Effective and ineffective.
Gary
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Post by slaine on Feb 12, 2015 6:21:22 GMT -5
There are only two styles. Effective and ineffective. Gary True but isn't it a case some styles are effective and some aren't ?
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Post by meguro on Feb 12, 2015 6:42:21 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree with you, Slaine. The one strike on kill ideal, and whatever other ideas borrowed from play sword fighting, impose a way of thinking on fighters ill-suited to fighting in a ring. Old Gichin Funakoshi and whoever should have scrapped a little more, or maybe they scrapped too much and lost a lot, and so came up with less than useful prescriptions.
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Post by slaine on Feb 12, 2015 7:24:59 GMT -5
Yes I agree and I think it's a case of the previous and not the latter in so far as they should have scrapped more ( that's assuming they scrapped at all ) and then coming up with solutions to a problem they weren't experienced in dealing with and thus sold it as a martial " art " and not a combat system which I think in the beginning people thought that was what they were learning as it's easier to keep up the deception rather than admit and try to fix your failings
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Feb 12, 2015 8:36:47 GMT -5
There are only two styles. Effective and ineffective. Gary True but isn't it a case some styles are effective and some aren't ? Exactly as I said. If you took everyone's badges off you're left with people who can make it work and people who can't. I never thought I'd say this about knockdown styles but we've reached the point that people can be a Shihan yet admit they hate hard fighting. By contrast I can show you people who came through 'soft' styles yet love a good scrap. Sad but true. (PS Don't ask me to name names) Gary
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Post by meguro on Feb 12, 2015 8:41:32 GMT -5
Fit, skillful and aggressive people win fights, not 'styles' per se. I agree with this too. There are folks who are gifted, or maybe they just worked harder than everyone else, or they're bigger, stronger and more athletic than anyone else. They can make a bad style look effective, and a good style look easy.
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Post by slaine on Feb 12, 2015 9:18:14 GMT -5
I hear what you're saying Gary but would it not be the case that some styles are inherently ineffective due to the way they train and fight , there will always be students that prove to be the exception to the rule but on the whole I think the majority are conning themselves.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Feb 12, 2015 11:36:48 GMT -5
Undoubtedly. We must guard against "Toughness by association" though. Tough styles only work if you train properly so there's a grey area in the middle where lazy knockdown style students will get their arse kicked by hard training 'soft' style students.
I'm not saying GKR will win the K2 anytime soon, just that not ALL knockdown students are hard trainers.
Gary
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Post by slaine on Feb 12, 2015 11:43:05 GMT -5
Yes I understand and point well made and with all your years experience you should know .
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Post by Ros on Feb 13, 2015 8:24:31 GMT -5
I never thought I'd say this about knockdown styles but we've reached the point that people can be a Shihan yet admit they hate hard fighting. *whispers* but surely no-one really likes it, do they?
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Post by MMX on Feb 13, 2015 11:04:26 GMT -5
I would not say I like it Ros but I don't mind it and I know that it helps to build the mindset of a TNS attitude.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Feb 13, 2015 11:30:05 GMT -5
I liked the challenge if not the bruises.
As each successive generation comes through there seem less genuinely tough fighters in the AVERAGE knockdown dojo. I'm not saying that's always a bad thing, just if you still 'sell' it as the strongest / toughest / baddest etc etc.
Then on the other hand there are youngsters - who've never fought - already believing they are strong as they happened to join a knockdown club.
Lets be clear: You're strong if you train properly and you're tough if you've been tested and done well. Anything else is borrowing the reputation that other people fought for.
Gary
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Post by slaine on Feb 13, 2015 11:59:53 GMT -5
And with each successive generation the training gets softer or easier or whatever way you want to say it in my opinion , I know like you Gary that no one is doing the kinds of things that were being done 30 years ago in the course of normal training .
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