GJEC
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LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Aug 12, 2015 0:53:48 GMT -5
My (our) point is that depth is far more important than breadth.
All the dangerous fighters know that, it's just the wannabes that fall for the more is better pitch.
Gary
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Post by Ros on Aug 12, 2015 2:43:54 GMT -5
On the specifics no but I think the training in general has become easier and I have to say softer ( especially for the younger students ) which is a reflection of how modern society feels it has to treat the youth of today to actually get them to engage in physical activity which is to our detriment I believe . Is it really a 'reflection of how modern society feels it has to treat the youth of today'? When you say easier and softer, what do you mean? If you mean students don't have to do huge, pointless amounts of repetitions that probably aren't particularly good for the body or don't have to be beaten up by more experienced students, then that's probably a good thing. My thoughts are that there are probably two sets of instructors nowadays. On the one hand you have the minority 'well I went through it and it didn't do me any harm' group and the other, hopefully larger, group of 'well I went through it and I don't want to put my students through it because it's shit, humiliating, possibly dangerous and there are far, far better ways of teaching and developing'. Maybe the second group has won out?
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Post by slaine on Aug 12, 2015 10:05:57 GMT -5
On the specifics no but I think the training in general has become easier and I have to say softer ( especially for the younger students ) which is a reflection of how modern society feels it has to treat the youth of today to actually get them to engage in physical activity which is to our detriment I believe . Is it really a 'reflection of how modern society feels it has to treat the youth of today'? When you say easier and softer, what do you mean? To the first point yes , in my experience . When I say easier and softer I mean just that , whether it's karate practice , football training , PE at the local community center or the wide range of other things , if there's an element of discipline , hard work , longevity or actually having to do something for yourself instead of the instructor/trainer making allowances for people they won't buy into it , it' no coincidence we have a child obesity problem when kids don't and won't do anything physical , my own 3 sons are a prime example , had them in Kyokushin they couldn't hack it , boxing they couldn't hack it , MMA they couldn't hack it and I think it's only through genetics that they never ended up overweight but that won't last forever and it's already starting to catch up on the 21 year old , hell if work was in the bed they'd sleep on the floor and that goes for their friends as well and the wider youth community in general .
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Post by Tay on Aug 12, 2015 10:33:00 GMT -5
Knowing 108 ways to kill someone with a spoon is useless unless you can find one when you need one ...
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Aug 12, 2015 12:09:40 GMT -5
Put me down for the second group.
You cant beat, shout, sweat or knock skills in, only encourage.
As for heart, if they've got it it will come through. If they've not? Plenty of things to try outside combat sports.
Gary
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Post by Ros on Aug 13, 2015 9:12:42 GMT -5
When I say easier and softer I mean just that , whether it's karate practice , football training , PE at the local community center or the wide range of other things , if there's an element of discipline , hard work , longevity or actually having to do something for yourself instead of the instructor/trainer making allowances for people they won't buy into it , it' no coincidence we have a child obesity problem when kids don't and won't do anything physical , my own 3 sons are a prime example , had them in Kyokushin they couldn't hack it , boxing they couldn't hack it , MMA they couldn't hack it and I think it's only through genetics that they never ended up overweight but that won't last forever and it's already starting to catch up on the 21 year old , hell if work was in the bed they'd sleep on the floor and that goes for their friends as well and the wider youth community in general . I don't think I'm following your argument. On the one hand I think you're saying that sports in general have become easier and softer to get the youth of today to engage in physical activity, but on the other hand, you're saying that the youth of today (I'm assuming your 3 sons fall into that category) won't engage in any physical activity full stop, which seems to contradict the first point. Obesity problems in general, child or adult, are multi-factorial. I think you're right that exercise does play a role, particularly for children. As a happily childless person, I can confidently say it's all down to the parents.
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Post by slaine on Aug 13, 2015 9:50:58 GMT -5
I don't think I'm following your argument. On the one hand I think you're saying that sports in general have become easier and softer to get the youth of today to engage in physical activity, but on the other hand, you're saying that the youth of today (I'm assuming your 3 sons fall into that category) won't engage in any physical activity full stop, which seems to contradict the first point .
Obesity problems in general, child or adult, are multi-factorial. I think you're right that exercise does play a role, particularly for children. As a happily childless person, I can confidently say it's all down to the parents. No I'm not saying sports in general have become easier as of course they have stayed the exact same , but it's the administering of them that has become easier and softer as it has had to adapt to a lazy and whingey attitude when it comes to the participants , I only used my sons as an example as I would say they are fairly typical youths of today that wanted to engage in a plethora of activities over the years like the ones I mentioned and more and all at their own behest I might add as I am not one of these parents to push or force my kids to do something because I think it might be good , but as soon as anything became in some way difficult , physically hard , demanding or had elements of having to follow instruction or discipline from a higher authority ie; an instructor , they were out , hell my youngest who is still in school tells me you don't even have to engage in PE if you don't want to so long as you don't cause a disturbance to others ?
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Post by Ros on Aug 14, 2015 2:02:52 GMT -5
No I'm not saying sports in general have become easier as of course they have stayed the exact same , but it's the administering of them that has become easier and softer as it has had to adapt to a lazy and whingey attitude when it comes to the participants , That's a massive assumption though, Slaine. I think that the administration has become 'easier and softer' because the majority of instructors have realised that harsh and demeaning conditions are not really optimum. A good instructor should be able to encourage lazy and whingey people with a variety of methods that don't include being a c**t. The vast majority of people would not want to participate in the old 'beasting' style of training and I don't think it's because they're lazy or whingey. It's probably because they're sensible.
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Post by slaine on Aug 14, 2015 3:51:22 GMT -5
I don't think it's an assumption I think my view is factually based on my experience's , then again that's my experience which must differ from yours so we'll just agree to disagree as we're taking this off topic.
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Aug 14, 2015 8:22:49 GMT -5
I would not coach today like I was coached (?) in the 70's.
If you start everyone's dojo experience by snarling at them that quitting or complaining was proof of lack of character, you simply end up with people who are afraid to quit when asked or told to do stupid stuff.
That's not spirit, that's brainwashing and peer pressure. It unravels when people are faced with ugly situations where no one is there to push them or tell them what to do.
A better approach is an outwardly softer style that encourages people to think on their feet and improves their confidence.
As you say though, we digress. Karate may not be the best fit for the ring, but who cares? Tennis isn't the best fit for fishing either.
Gary
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Post by slaine on Aug 14, 2015 8:39:50 GMT -5
I would not coach today like I was coached (?) in the 70's. If you start everyone's dojo experience by snarling at them that quitting or complaining was proof of lack of character, you simply end up with people who are afraid to quit when asked or told to do stupid stuff. That's not spirit, that's brainwashing and peer pressure. It unravels when people are faced with ugly situations where no one is there to push them or tell them what to do. A better approach is an outwardly softer style that encourages people to think on their feet and improves their confidence. As you say though, we digress. Karate may not be the best fit for the ring, but who cares? Tennis isn't the best fit for fishing either. Gary I totally agree with you Gary and the first style of teaching is not what I'm advocating at all and I never had instructors like that , but what I also dislike and there seems to be an awful lot more of it is making allowances for students that want to sit out on pushups because they have a sore toe or can't do sit-ups because they ate too much before coming to training or don't want to spar because it hurts , what did you think you were joining ? Maybe you're right in that tennis or fishing is where they should be .
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Post by Ros on Aug 14, 2015 9:46:57 GMT -5
but what I also dislike and there seems to be an awful lot more of it is making allowances for students that want to sit out on pushups because they have a sore toe or can't do sit-ups because they ate too much before coming to training or don't want to spar because it hurts , what did you think you were joining ? Who cares if they sit out, do you think they should be forced? Maybe with some encouragement they will join in next time, maybe not and they'll leave. Doesn't matter either way, just get on with your own training.
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Post by slaine on Aug 14, 2015 10:07:14 GMT -5
but what I also dislike and there seems to be an awful lot more of it is making allowances for students that want to sit out on pushups because they have a sore toe or can't do sit-ups because they ate too much before coming to training or don't want to spar because it hurts , what did you think you were joining ? Who cares if they sit out, do you think they should be forced? Maybe with some encouragement they will join in next time, maybe not and they'll leave. Doesn't matter either way, just get on with your own training. Again it goes back to my point , what did they think they were joining ? , it's not needlework or croquet , and I'm all for encouraging people but I draw the line at mollycoddling or reworking the format of a class to accommodate the ones that don't really want to be there .
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Post by meguro on Aug 14, 2015 11:35:40 GMT -5
While rummaging through the bookshelf I came across a book entitled "This is Karate,"or something like that. There is a picture of the author blocking a chudan mawashi geri with a chudan soto uke. The book was rife with all these poorly conceived applications, and this from a supposed authority. No matter how much grit a student posses, it will never make up for the deficit in fighting common sense passed on by traditional experts of the dance.
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GJEC
Member
LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
Posts: 3,218
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Post by GJEC on Aug 14, 2015 17:14:20 GMT -5
Made even more sad when we see otherwise sane people in awe of these old 'masters'.
Gary
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