evergrey
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Get over yourself, mate.
Posts: 854
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Post by evergrey on Mar 16, 2014 4:11:52 GMT -5
We practice head punching sparring in our group from time to time. When we practice application/bunkai it's always from the context of head punching. In both Kyokushin dojos (AKKO and Tezuka) we did not practice head punching or bunkai against head punching in Kata. I do not think the lack of or insertion of head punching is a point of contention. One interesting thing we do sometimes is mix up rounds of head punch sparring and KD kumite. Oh, Tezuka group? Cool! I have played with some AKKO people and visited with some Tezuka people (including Kaicho Tezuka himself- SUPER NICE GUY) and know some people who have been in both. My dojo was AKKO for a while under Don Buck, but isn't now. Plenty of head strikes, though.
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curlbroscience
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Testing the waters. Thanks for the forum MMX!
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Post by curlbroscience on Mar 17, 2014 11:24:18 GMT -5
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GJEC
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LOUGHBOROUGH ENSHIN
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Post by GJEC on Mar 17, 2014 11:36:05 GMT -5
Added benefits of Knockdown Kumite: Handling adrenaline, building up of fighting spirit while saving your noggin for when it counts. Amen to that! Add impact and a predatory 'let's finish this' instinct and you are formidable indeed. Gary
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evergrey
Member
Get over yourself, mate.
Posts: 854
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Post by evergrey on Mar 17, 2014 14:47:40 GMT -5
I was JUST going to come over here with that article! Haha!
I haven't met Fred Buck- I think my dojo left not too long after he took over the AKKO. Don Buck passed away well before I started training. His history is colorful and mysterious, and the story changes depending on who you ask, hah!
There is a binder full of letters out there from Mas Oyama to Don Buck that I would really, really love to read.
Kaicho Tezuka- I really really really wish he could be my grandpa. Just a quick example (sorry for the derail!) but I had always been told to not directly approach the Japanese Kyokushin leaders, the really high ranked ones, especially since I am just a 4th kyu. I had been told by a number of people to just bow and OSU and that they tend to be standoffish and never interact with low ranks.
I first met him at the hotel where the IKO4 tournament was being held in Provo, Utah. Got this prickle in the back of my neck whilst we checked in, turned around and saw some Important Looking Men with that Important Man Haircut, and behind him an elderly, dignified gentleman. It was obvious who they were, by how they carried themselves. Also, buncha Japanese men rolling into a hotel in Utah when a black belt test was going to be run, yeah. Obvious.
When I made eye contact, I bowed and OSU'd, just like everyone told me.
Well, Kaicho Tezuka zipped around his phalanx of Shihans and grabbed my hand, and shook it, smiling and saying "OSU, OSU, OSU!" He didn't speak any English but he was really kind and open.
I ended up, three days later, sitting at a birthday table with all of them. Told stories about my horse (he was born in the year of the horse, and when I showed him some photos of my old man on my phone, he made the other Shihans look at all of them, hehe) and managed to dump ice cream down the front of my shirt. They were all very polite and pretended to not notice as I panicked and searched for a napkin, hahaha.
So they might think I'm special needs (hah, technically I could count as that, actually,) but they were very nice, and invited me to a campout where Kaicho will be this summer.
I even got a HUG from him when I left!
(I kinda adore him, if you hadn't noticed. I'm not in his org, but it didn't seem to matter to him.)
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Post by gimptron on Apr 19, 2014 23:38:32 GMT -5
I never understood why head punching is extra important to some people. I mean Kyokushin and it's offshoots allow kicking to the head but I guess some people think it's too hard to kick that high or come up with a strategy to set up said kick.
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Post by kyokanrik on Apr 22, 2014 20:58:31 GMT -5
I never understood why head punching is extra important to some people. I mean Kyokushin and it's offshoots allow kicking to the head but I guess some people think it's too hard to kick that high or come up with a strategy to set up said kick. I believe those who are finding an issue with it are those who are training in hopes that, if they one day have to defend themselves in a real-life confrontation, they can. Many tend to realize very quickly when one of these seld-defense/fighting situations arises that the lack of training on "head punches"(and the defense of them) is a major handicap. Major. And that's just a harsh reality about my beloved art Kyokushin. It doesn't matter how well trained our jodan-uke's are; if you aren't used to deflecting real blows coming at real speed, your jodan-uke's will not come to fruition during the heat of real battle. That's the issue that I find many people to have with Kyokushin. Those who do not have a problem with it are usually the students who are competitors. Their goal is different, as they are training to get better in competition- therefore, training in accordance with competition rule sets(no face punching) works just fine for them. But the others, who stepped into the dojo to "learn to fight", well, those are you usally the ones who tend to have an issue with it. Osu
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 23, 2014 0:55:04 GMT -5
I've never found it an issue. In the 70's few of the people I knew from 'round the town' trained seriously, but those of us that did - be they boxer, karate-ka, or judo-ka (there was no MMA then) - could all have a fight, not just compete. No one told us it wouldn't work, so we had skill, fitness and self-belief, a formidable combination. Few of us drank so faced with drunken idiots we had all the advantages. That was in the 70's, but nowadays everyone talks about what WON'T work instead of focusing on what DOES. I find this depressing as it destroys self belief. We're better off relying on animal instinct than training in stuff we constantly question and doubt. In my days of 'streetfighting' I never bothered posturing or threatening, but if I had to 'go' I just got stuck in. I was fast and I hit ****ing hard. It always worked. Maybe I was lucky, but I prefer to be thankful I was well prepared. Gary EDIT: The weapons of choice at the time were bottles and glasses, so blocking didn't work. Then, as now, getting a hard blow on target quickly made all the difference. Even if you 'just' train for KD, take time to practice grabbing clothing or hair and striking the jawline as fast and as hard as possible. You may find few offering to help so use pads.
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Post by senshido on Apr 23, 2014 6:32:12 GMT -5
I've never found it an issue. In the 70's few of the people I knew from 'round the town' trained seriously, but those of us that did - be they boxer, karate-ka, or judo-ka (there was no MMA then) - could all have a fight, not just compete. No one told us it wouldn't work, so we had skill, fitness and self-belief, a formidable combination. Few of us drank so faced with drunken idiots we had all the advantages. That was in the 70's, but nowadays everyone talks about what WON'T work instead of focusing on what DOES. I find this depressing as it destroys self belief. We're better off relying on animal instinct than training in stuff we constantly question and doubt. In my days of 'streetfighting' I never bothered posturing or threatening, but if I had to 'go' I just got stuck in. I was fast and I hit ****ing hard. It always worked. Maybe I was lucky, but I prefer to be thankful I was well prepared. Gary EDIT: The weapons of choice at the time were bottles and glasses, so blocking didn't work. Then, as now, getting a hard blow on target quickly made all the difference. Even if you 'just' train for KD, take time to practice grabbing clothing or hair and striking the jawline as fast and as hard as possible. You may find few offering to help so use pads. Amen
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Post by meguro on Apr 23, 2014 7:28:37 GMT -5
I never understood why head punching is extra important to some people. . . Probably because it is one of the fastest ways of ending a fight.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 24, 2014 2:38:59 GMT -5
I never understood why head punching is extra important to some people. . . Probably because it is one of the fastest ways of ending a fight. The very reason head punches were taken out of KD rules. If the way it was explained to us before the first WT in 1975 was true, Mas. Oyama didn't want quick knockouts from wild punches, but a gritty battle that was more a test of 'spirito'. The cynical amongst us might think it was a way of giving spectators more value for money as often more rules = longer fights. But I prefer to think a test of grit should last more than a few seconds (the average street fight) Back to face punches; once we have enough power to drop fit and determined people with body shots and broken sternums, changing the angle is reasonably easy. I like the grab as well. I learnt early on that fights often happen at night or in pubs and clubs with (in my day) strobe or disco lights, so the simple act of gripping with the non striking hand made finding the target more reliable. I remember teaching in the dark once during a power cut and telling everyone to pad up for sparring. Everyone looked at me like I'd lost the plot ... Gary
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monty
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Post by monty on Apr 24, 2014 8:16:36 GMT -5
We did an interesting drill at one of Ian Abernethy's seminars.
Grab hold of your opponents Gi(at the upper arm) and close you eyes, on each count the opponent moves their head position(so they bow forwards or lean to the side for example) on the next count(without opening your eyes) you touch them on the head.
With the little information your brain has about where their head is it's amazing how most of the time you can touch the top of their head straight away.
He then discussed the two schools of thought about 'indexing' the first says 'you are taking 50% of your striking weapons out of play by grabbing' the seconds says 'Yeah but you are 90% more accurate with the one weapon you do have'
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 24, 2014 9:33:07 GMT -5
'Yeah but you are 90% more accurate with the one weapon you do have' I'll take those odds. Gary
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Post by meguro on Apr 24, 2014 9:46:56 GMT -5
Of course I am on board with the grabbing and punching. You know where this leads. . .ice hockey.
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GJEC
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Post by GJEC on Apr 24, 2014 10:47:03 GMT -5
I watched that once and a game broke out. (Groans at his own joke)
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Post by alan on Apr 25, 2014 2:11:43 GMT -5
I went to an ice hockey game in Canada years ago and a big fight broke out in the crowd, never forget that day....hot outside and the idiot went in wearing just a t shirt and i froze my ******** off!
The name of the game is to get the first punch in, stay calm don`t get animated or start shouting threats, just hit them on the side of the jaw as hard as you can (if they appear otherwise okay) or if it`s serious straight in the throat!!
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